"You've got to be kidding. The Anglosphere spent 60 years building up the EU. They may eventually decide to take it down if nothing else works but don't seem to have reached that point yet."

Can you really be that clueless, or is it something else? Apparently, you have no historical grasp of the happenings of ummm, let's say of the last 100 years, which would help a lot in understanding current events. I guess the creating a fake crisis by using a Globalist monkey like Papandreou to wage war on Europe, and the activation of the Anglo-saxon propaganda machine to wage war on the Euro don't count much as an attack on the Euro in the fantasy land you're living?

"And we don't buy this global "great game" bullsh--. Encircling Russia, huh? Putin is a serious enemy of NATO? You really think so?"

Ugh. Apparently you don't buy much of anything that has to do with reality it seems. I guess all the missile defense shields are there for the "Iran threat" and the US establishing military bases all over Eurasia are in preparation for the Globalist Utopia where you'll be riding ponies.

I'm very disappointed by the article as well as from Anthony Wile's interview on RT.

Listen people. This referendum has nothing to do with "Greek people deciding for their future". That's the dominant false meme. The Greek people's future was decided long ago when the Angloshpere, that this site is supposedly against, installed their CFR/Globalist/Soros puppet George Papandreou as Prime Minister with what equals a constitutional coup in order to further the US elite plan for the destruction of the Euro.

The implementation of this agenda demands that Greece is thrashed and destroyed, exiting the Eurozone and handed over to Turkey as part of the encirclement of Russia with the creation of a neo-Ottoman empire. The referendum is a brilliant tactical move ordered by the US on the puppet/traitor Papandreou so that the US gains the upper hand in the G20 negotiations that begin shortly, and impose its terms on the so-called European rescue.

Meaning an ECB that acts like a European Fed that prints money out of thin air thus turning the production based European economy, and Germany in particular, into one of bubbles and inflation like the very ones that are ruining the American economy. It's all about the US maintaining its hegemony over Europe.

Reply from The Daily Bell

" in order to further the US elite plan for the destruction of the Euro."

You've got to be kidding. The Anglosphere spent 60 years building up the EU. They may eventually decide to take it down if nothing else works but don't seem to have reached that point yet.

And we don't buy this global "great game" bullsh--. Encircling Russia, huh? Putin is a serious enemy of NATO? You really think so?

European heads are not capable of solving the crisis. They have pretty much done everything to prove they are completely incapable of solving the crisis. So it is now slowly being suggested that the IMF should step in to solve the crisis.
I think this is the next stage, there will be a few more fake solutions while the problems are mounting and then the way will be cleared for the IMF to step in. Anyone can guess what will happen next. The IMF will demand complete reformation of how the european union is run. Meaning that there will have to be a strong central government in the EU first that will take the (monetary) decisions. This will also be a central fiscal government. Meaning that all the (income) taxations and VAT etc will go to the central EURO government. However the local governments will still be responsible of the tax collections of their citizens. Meaning that Greece, Spain, Italy etc will bring in next to nothing while the fast bulk of the tax incoms for the euro superstate will come from Germany, The Netherlands, Finland and Austria.

The central government will be responsible for dividing the tax revenues amonng the Euro countries. Meaning that Greece, Spain, italy etc will receive the bulk and The Netherlands and Germany etc will receive a lot less in comparison. What will happen with the Pension savings etc of the Netherlands etc remains to be seen but i would not be surprised that all the pension savings of the EU countries will also be put in one and divided.

At the moment the citizens of the Euro countries won't accept such a solution but if the IMF steps in they will demand it. My guess is that the Euro governments plan to keep making such a big mess that eventually the citizens are so tired of it that they accept the solution of the IMF

Heh, I trust you will be very safe AW.

I should sleep - its now dark on the NZ side of the old ARG map.

Kind regards to DB & Elves, all who sail in her, and those who dont.

Click to view link

I believe it is called floating a trial balloon.

"Are you purposefully misunderstanding us? We simply indicated that we doubted that a substantive paper trail would be found leading to him. Modern Wall Street at the higher levels is mercantilist, organized theft." ... . Reply from The Daily Bell

Most certainly not, DB. I would imagine to understand you quite perfectly enough for us to be in agreement. I was just wondering whether you thought such organised mercantilist theft should be immune from prosecution with its leading perps not imprisoned as common criminals, just because they would have avoided leaving a paper trail whenever any reasonable view would rightly conclude that they were to be one of the main beneficiaries of any rewards should their scams not have fallen apart?

A two tier/multi tier justice system is never gonna work in the real world, is it, with one set of dodgy rules for one group of folk and another set of rules for other folk, which appears to be exactly what is in place today. Time for a change, methinks, and a level playing field where all can see the ball and play to the same set of rules and regulations, or no rules and regulations if you want to embrace anarchy and chaos.

And invariably there is always a paper trail, which is now also electronic and virtual and indelible.

Gold, rather than the markets is the best indicator and renders the unemotional verdict of what's actually going on.

"I am startging to doubt this theory though. Reports of $700mm missing from customer accounts is directly recognized in the business as theft. A negligent mismanagement of risk is one thing, but stealing out of the accounts will get Corzine a new roommate, and he will not be happy with that. Gambit theory dissolves under those conditions." …Posted by Dilence Sogwood on 11/01/11 11:10 AM

"Well ... HE didn't do the stealing ... or not directly anyway ... He would be a fool if he didn't insulate himself …" ….. Reply from The Daily Bell

Oh please, DB, you cannot be serious? Do you honestly expect anyone, and especially anyone who visits these pages floating their ideas and memes in Cyber Space and the Internet Networking Place, to believe that foot soldiers were not following orders from head quarters/traders actions were not known to, and demanded of Command and Control. Were does the buck stop in your scheme of things then? The system is collapsing at an exponentially rapid pace now, directly because of that sort of attitude and provision which would seek to insulate the guilty party from the actions of their servants, and reward them for their abject failure and delusional too smart to be the fall guy mentality because of their membership of a club/cabal full of like corruptly and perversely minded armchair generals, who would imagine that they are guaranteed immunity from prosecution and thus can act criminally with impunity. Such actions are indeed the actions of FOOLS and be be afeared of shouting it loud and clear.

And you may like to consider that the actions of Corzine/MF Global, whenever there is no sanction taken to punish and destroy and prevent such actions happening again, has in an instant completely destroyed the hedge fund/alternative investment market place which has extremely wealthy wannabe dodgy market investors, who wannabe made richer for doing nothing but/and falling for the spiel of criminal fools gambling on dodgy markets and into dabbling as a fraudulent self styled and promoted expert in a Great Game over which they really have zero control and virtually no zero-day vulnerability control either, with all of their clients money at risk of being lost in systems transactions/eruptions/meltdowns/adjustments/purges/desperate thefts.

Would you rest your fortune with them? Would you, in another business arrangement, guarantee to cover their losses with an insurance and assurances which would pay out every last red cent gambled and lost/stolen, and have the power of the law behind it to ensure there is no default on payment? Methinks not, buster, for that is the territory of mad and sad and even simply decidedly bad and possibly even evil fools and useless tools and of no interest to a sane being with much better things to do in Reality with IT and ITs Virtual Realities. And what on earth would the law and justice be doing in such a case, guaranteeing full payment to extremely wealthy but obviously intellectually challenged and gullible and greedy clients, for criminal action in the first instance anyway. That would be surely an insanity and would be bound to cause mayhem and bedlam and chaos…. a triple whammy of explosive and implosive misfortune.

The system is rotten to the core and yet there are defenders of it? Now that is surely a madness confirmed and a case for immediate incarceration and removal from society identified? Or would you like to disagree and offer excuses for such actions?

Hi, AW and Pete 8, regarding the ARG and even an online interactive immersive edutainment center of excellence for umm, anything references, is what is currently running and an AI Work in IT Progress being servered for alien feeding to frenzies of friendlies, at least inclusive of everything that can be imagined, and could easily be an APT App entitled ….. Better Beta ARGs for Crashing Failed Turing Test Dummies. A block buster movie franchise with directors and producers and actors with nobel and noble and outstanding talents is a pleasant preoccupation and may even presently be in AI ProgramMING, a quite Titanic and Colossal Current and Powerful HyperRadioProActive Muse gracing the inbox of a very attractive young lady for onward personal assistant forwarding to generals in the field of super-intelligent and sophisticated artistic media battle.

:-) Which is sort of like/exactly like, in a romantic, post modernist virtual reality equivalence for the instant global communications and internet age of an earlier fabulous meme, a message in a bottle, although this one starts a fantastically rewarding cascade of enriching opportunities which defies belief and suspends reality whilst IT and Media deliver SMARTer IntelAIgents and greater intelligence about everything, and anything, to everyone, everywhere ……. with, well, IT would be nothing less than with the Creative Command and CyberSpace Control of Computers and Communications.

And Simply Complicated Anonymous Legions with AI Powers in a Universal Virtual Force with Immaculately Resourced Assets are but one explosive tangent to explore and deliver with an almighty and fully recognised presence.

And if h2g2 gurus would get their act together and resolve the present difficulty which has alien contact, after provided site entry, returned with a most unsavoury "We're sorry, but you are restricted from posting to this site." [and if you know that Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy well, would such censorship be surely deemed to be more political than have anything to do with a technical glitch, as is supposedly being presented explored in the back office environment to allow normal service to be resumed and as is afforded to countless others] would they also be able to benefit from shared experiences in the Virtual Team Terrain Fields of Live Operational Virtual Environments. One would almost think that they were petrified of shared experiences being made known …. and how spooky is that. But I have digressed/charged off on a tangent, and will say no more.

Reply from The Daily Bell

Are you purposefully misunderstanding us? We simply indicated that we doubted that a substantive paper trail would be found leading to him. Modern Wall Street at the higher levels is mercantilist, organized theft.

Absolutely, the stock markets are dominated by insiders. It's been a rigged game from the start. That was a current story in about 1870.
The genuine questions should be: Why is this a story now, again? Why do the same cycles repeat time and again, and why do people seemingly not learn anything? What are the common errors that lead society into the same crises repeatedly?
What if virtually all the people in the world hold deep beliefs that automatically create the injustice that we see everywhere? Is it possible?
The thesis of this report includes "The global stock market, as created by the Anglosphere elites, is profoundly undemocratic and unfree."
Dominant Social Theme: Democracy is freedom-in-action, and the only people who don't like it are fascist elites bent on enslaving the world. Democracy is so morally superior, that wars fought to spread it, and millions slaughtered, are wonderful gifts to humanity; noble and heroic, in fact.
Free-Minded Analysis: The global stock markets are profoundly democratic and unfree. Democracy is injustice-in-action, and can thus produce only unfree institutions. Unfree stock markets, and unfree everything else, are the inevitable result of democracy.
The essence of democracy is that the most successful lobbying group dictates the law on every issue, and these laws are forced on everyone. The political winners imposing their wishes by force on everyone else is deemed moral, as is the often-brutal enforcement that follows, and thus morality becomes twisted, nonsensical, and subjective. Organized thuggery becomes moral, and resisting it becomes depraved and criminal. The only chance anyone has of getting back what is being taken from them, in earnings, in freedom, in lives, is to try to join together in lobbying for some self-favorable laws, yet with everyone else doing the same, it's a brutal game. The early winners, with their favorable laws, begin ammassing power and wealth, and soon they have a distinct advantage; they can devote more resources to lobbying. The winners win more and more, and their influence thus spreads far and wide, with more people every day dependent on them and loyal to them. The losers grow too, in numbers and in desperation, yet they still think that lobbying government and coercive rule by the most powerful mob is the cure for their problems. They even try to lobby for the more successful lobbyists to be banned from lobbying, but the more successful lobbyists win again...
This is the only possible outcome, outlined by the rules from the start. The apparent freedom at the inception of a democracy is short-lived; oppression spreads unceasingly, year after year. In fact, democracy will always morph into dictatorship. Always has, and always will. Historically, this takes about 300 years, on average.
For those to whom this logic is foreign, I suggest studying "The Law", by Frederic Bastiat. It's available online for free, from several sources. It's perhaps the most imperative thesis for this time, in existence, if freedom is the goal.
In essence, the popular cry of the people calls for the rule set that's impoverishing and imprisoning them, and as they get more desperate they amplify the culpable rules. The winners are blamed, not because they imposed the rules, but because they're better at the game. The blame is simply a late-stage, desperate escalation of the insanity.
I suggest that the only "manipulation" needed by the elites to maintain their power is continued popular belief in the tenets of democracy. So far, the task couldn't be easier.
What might happen if a critical mass of ordinary people stopped believing in organized oppression, and started to envision a genuinely-free society? Is this possible?

Henry Kissinger, a Jew, a war criminal, and a Nobel Prize winner has put it perfectly clear what are the Jewish banking Elite intentions: a destruction of the Western Civilization.

It appear that they,the Jewish banking Elite, have crossed the Rubicon with no ways back. Hitler and Qaddafi have made a terrible mistake, i.e., they were looking for a compromise.

We do not know why G-Pap decided to allow Greece people to have a vote on their future.

I do not like to guess and I don't like G-Pap either.

However, in a case of Greece people voting down the Central Banks imposed austerity, an imminent disintegration of EU and euro-zone will take place. A domino effect will move with a lighting speed all across Europe. In this case, the entire European continent will be in such chaos that the Power Elite will be forced to fight for its own physical survival.

It appears that someone takes a gigantic gamble with no real benefits at all. It appears that a huge underestimation of the gamble consequences is taking place.

Hi Pete 8,

Pappydropoff, or whatever his name is, is just a tool in the current ARG.

A tool to swerve the story in a direction that makes life interesting for those that are running the current ARG. They basically know which direction they want to take the game, but this is just a "shtick and awl" campaign. A way out, with a way in. We do it all the time in Metaforia.

I am one such tool.

I was killed before in our ARG, and have this funny feeling it is happening again.

Posted by Agent Weebley on 11/01/11 10:12 PM
Click to view link

Posted by Agent Weebley on 11/01/11 10:37 PM
Click to view link

TIAG

I wonder if DB read has this article from Der Spiegel 1999/52 ?

[ Google Translation ]

The Brussels Republic

Jean-Claude Juncker is a clever guy :

"We decide on something, then put in the room and wait a while to see what happens," the prime minister of tiny Luxembourg reveals the tricks to which he encouraged the leaders of the EU in the European policy. "If there is no hue and cry and then no uprisings, because most people do not know what has been decided, then we move on -. Step by step, until there is no turning back"

(Spiegel 52/1999)

Click to view link


FWIW

Greetings DB and all. aMfM - that last line suggests at least a book title, or even an online interactive immersive edutainment center of excellence for umm, anything.

"ARG's for Dummies"

http://bit.ly/2mE7DR

Have a great game day all :)

I don't think the markets were reacting specifically to the announcement that the Greeks were going to be given an opportunity to vote on whether to accept the debt bailout or not. The problem arises with the timing of the referendum - February 12, 2012.

In a recent Bloomberg article:

"European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said Europe's debt crisis now threatens the region's financial system as officials race to put together a new plan to end the turmoil.

'The crisis has reached a systemic dimension,' Trichet told lawmakers in Brussels today in his capacity as head of the European Systemic Risk Board. 'Sovereign stress has moved from smaller economies to some of the larger countries. The crisis is systemic and must be tackled decisively.'

European leaders are trying to shore up the region's banks as they debate how best to manage the fallout from any Greek default. Governments yesterday pushed back a summit amid opposition to Germany's drive for deeper-than-planned Greek bond writedowns that Luxembourg's Jean-Claude Juncker says may exceed 60 percent.

'Time is always of the essence when you have to be in a mode of crisis management,' said Trichet. "

This postponement by the Greeks of the bailout is the factor that spooked the markets. Markets have a love/hate relationship with uncertainty. "Buy on rumour, sell on news" is a well known market adage. That can be reversed if the expected news is bad news as it is in this case. Your observation that this may be a manoeuvre to prevent any such thing happening may well be the case. Or the core nations may gang up on Greece and force them to accept the bailout without a referendum. This is the uncertainty of the situation. A wise speculator would sell in these circumstances.

Maybe he had just put on a large short position in the euro.

Is the Greek PM's seemingly spontaneous and arbitrary decision a cynical distraction to divert attention away from the systemic ponzi workings of the western capitalist markets as practised on Wall Street, although there does seem to be an embarrassment of dodgy riches no matter where one turns to in that crooked sector ... ... .. Click to view link

All is quiet on the Eastern front, though. I wonder why that is? Smarter traders? Honest traders?

Methinks bedlam is an appropriate word for the unfolding and deepening crisis ... ... and who thinks it is a good idea to keep trying to put things back to the way things were, rather than trying something completely different.

Change the Game, Dummies.

I think is useless to ask what Papandreou has in mind since he certainly doesn't know himself. Think about that the guy had a whole continent spend days talking about his country whilst knowing that this was completely useless because he would finally ask his people about it. In this case he is a crook. Or, he didn't know about it and caved under pressure when back home. In this case he is incompetent. So far, the problem is not Europe. The problem is Greece. That problem looms so large that you can't even try to assess the real issue or advantage with Europe.

"It is most interesting that stock markets reacted negatively to the idea that Greeks could decide their own future in terms of EU austerity measures. This is surely a dominant social theme - that the market renders unemotional verdict and decides in favor of the more successful reality. It does no such thing."

An Unquestioned Assumption?

Perhaps the writer of this article needs to really question the unquestioned assumption that anyone really knows why those markets reacted that way, on that particular day.

This exact same "thought process" and resultant assumption [i.e.that the markets did this or that in response to such and such on day such and such], is regularly spouted in financial news , on a daily basis, as if it were gospel written in stone .

Although it may sound reasonable at first glance, I believe that more thought reveals the whole idea to be preposterous.

Nobody can really know why the individual actions of millions and millions of individual people around the world, in [probably] millions of different markets, result in any one specific outcome, in any one specific market, on any one specific day.

Pure Propaganda

This leads me to conclude that the conclusion drawn by the mainstream press [i.e. that the markets went down _because_ the Greeks want a referendum], is nothing more than blatant political propaganda designed to attempt to prevent any such referendum from occurring, and to make sure the EU's "solution" gets rammed through regardless.

As far as I can see, there is no way that it can it be reasonably assumed [with a straight face] that markets in general are against the referendum and therefor reacted negatively on news that one might occur, or that markets _ever_ react in ways that are clearly apparent to a select few at any particular time- although once in a blue moon, I suppose, it is possible that someone might get it right [after all, a stopped clock is right twice a day, right?], but even then no one will really know that[that someone got it right] until long after the fact. Regards, onebornfree.

Reply from The Daily Bell

OK. The Greeks announced (or re-announced) a referendum and markets plunged. We have a hard time believing that's coincidence ...

Regarding Corzine, a possible explanation might still be hubris.

I see it all the time, and it comes heavy with very senior guys. They get lazy, but their capital gets larger. They rely on hueristics rather than analysis. They get themselves in trouble. The "stealing" aspect makes me think Corzine may have just lost his edge. BTW- What a nice thing for a Progessive to do!

Reply from The Daily Bell

Went into government and got used to it? ...