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Monday, February 20, 2012

EU's Prodi Admits Leaders Knew Euro Would Cause Ruin but Hoped Political Union Would Follow

By Staff Report
23

Romano Pradi

The Flowers that Launched the Euro ... To mark the anniversary of the arrival of the euro in the form of notes and coins, euronews spoke with Romano Prodi, who in 2002 was President of the European Commission .... Prodi: "Well, the difficult moments were predictable. When we created the euro, my objection, as an economist (and I talked about it with Kohl and with all the heads of government) was: how can we have a common currency without shared financial, economical and political pillars? The wise answer was: for the moment we've made this leap forward. The rest will follow ... Then instead came the Europe of fear: fear of China, fear of immigrants, fear of globalisation. So it was clear that this crisis would arrive. But the euro is so important, it's so convenient for everyone — especially Germany — that I've no doubt that the euro won't just survive, but it will be one of the landmarks for the world economy." – euronews

Dominant Social Theme: The Euro is a fragrant blossom.

Free-Market Analysis: The EU's top politicos knew what was going to happen to the European Union and in fact, they planned for it. We can see from this shockng excerpt (above) just how duplicitous these "leaders" were. 

Yes, Romano Prodi has now actually admitted it. Those running the EU, and those standing behind them, are trying to create world government and the European Union was evidently and obviously created as a stepping-stone.

The EU was not presented as a rung on the ladder to world government but that's what it has become. Initially, it was just supposed to be a trade association but it should be clear to an unbiased observer that was just a disguise. The end result was what it is becoming. Here's some more from the interview:

euronews: "What drove you all, what convinced you about the necessity to adopt a unique European currency?"

Prodi: "The same thing that convinces me even today – because I haven't changed my mind. I mean, if we want to build up a new Europe we have to put together the pillars of a modern State. And these pillars are: the army and the currency. With 'army' I mean foreign policy, defence and security, with currency an economic symbol.

"Of course we could start with one or with the other, but historically we had this possibility, because the economical side has developed more quickly. That's why, in that precise moment, we pushed with all our strength (to reach the target) because if the economy isn't unified and we don't have a common currency we can't face the future."

It couldn't be more obvious than this. Prodi has in mind building a "state" with all the pillars of the modern era. Interestingly, he doesn't go farther than two pillars – the army and the currency – though he does break the army down into constituent parts.

If you examine this statement, however, the enormity should become clear. He is saying that a state is comprised of foreign policy, defense and security with the currency symbolizing its power and omnipotence.

It does not even seem to occur to him that there is no such thing as a "state." A state is made up of people, some of whom choose to use force on others based on statements made in organized forums (legislatures).

What Prodi is saying is even more devious, however. Knowing that within the context of an economic crisis "the result would follow" [political union], it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Prodi and his colleagues set out to PRECIPITATE a crisis.

We've explained this numerous times before. The Eurocrats gave billions of euros away to the PIGS to ensure that the "books" would be balanced before these southern European countries were to be allowed into the EU.

In actuality, we believe this was a poorly disguised bribe to ensure the elites brought their nations into the fold. After the voting was done and the money pocketed, European banks were brought to bear to further inflame the PIGS' financial situation with additional lending.

We don't believe any of this was coincidence. It seems increasingly obvious that the Anglosphere power elite that is behind the world's march toward global government had a political union in mind all along. And the current vicious attacks on PIGS' sovereignty is further evidence of this.

Conclusion: Prodi as much as confesses the plan in this short interview. Such sad times in so many ways.




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  Posted by Abu Aardvark on 02/20/12 01:00 PM

"We decide on something, float it, and wait a while to see what happens", the prime minister of tiny Luxembourg reveals the tricks to which he encouraged the leaders of the EU in European politics." If there's no big outcry and no riots, because most people do not know what has been decided, we go on, step by step, until there's no going back"

(Article about Jean-Claude Juncker, December 27th, 1999)

Click to view link


"When the going gets tough, one has to lie"

(Jean-Claude Juncker. May 9th, 2011)

Click to view link

  Posted by nithsdale on 02/20/12 01:39 PM

Your staff just wrote the worst of your articles. You should sit them down and have them read the early history of the United States, the gradual amalgamation of our early thirteen states, each with its own currency printed from town to town, and the need for a more trustworthy medium of exchange in which to conduct trade to serve a growing population. Also they should review the problems with allowing Congress to control money when it was involved in the sale of favors for election (even in 1776) and the experiments with outside, supposedly more neutral groups, to be the brake on such activity to bolster the money supply as required when population surges.

What Europe is going through mirrors what every developing union, national as well as international, must experience as it works out the kinks in systems, as it reviews the markets needs to expand to meet the growing demand all over the globe.

The economic union of Europe was not brought about by pundits like you but by truckers who revolted at having to stop at customs stations as they crossed the borders enroute to India et al, bringing back what Europe had to have to rebuild itself after WWII. The governments, despite truckers great contribution to restoring civility to that continent, treated them like "cash cows". I was there when the truckers just left their trucks in every major highway, locked them and walked away and nothing could move. Within hours, the governments of Europe removed all the custom booths on the borders, fees too, just to get the highways cleared and moving again. That was in the early 1980's. That is how the United States of Europe got going.
It was a conspiracy all right but not from the Bilderbergers but from hard working truckers who spent a week in their cabs serving their clients on 2000 mile routes! No diplomats were there then, they moved in afterwards!

Your writers should take a year off and go round the world, staying a month in major cities and then maybe they will learn what "development" really is. You can't discover the facts of enterprise from books and discussion with academics who have never been in "trade".

Reply from The Daily Bell

OK, Nithsdale. You believe the EU is a product of disconsolate truckers. We don't.

  Posted by josejoe on 02/20/12 02:33 PM

very insightful,nithsdale, thanks.

  Posted by Edgar Friendly on 02/20/12 02:42 PM

Well, the people of erope now have witnessed the truth about thier "European Union" they should know who the traitors are; where they're from; find where they live; and dispense justice. The world court won't ; nor should they put faith in the respective courts of the 'member' conutries... all are controlled by the elites.

Let's see if europeans have the stones to take back thier soveriegnty and save thier progeny from crushing oppression and globalist serfdom.

  Posted by Jones on 02/20/12 03:07 PM

Europe is indeed a mess... by design or by ignorance, no doubt. Pols are easily purchased and their votes are thus insured.

Here is a unique solution, recently stated by the master tactician Alex Jones: "I am a raging Tasmanian Devil who will jump on you and gouge your eyes out!!"

Ah, now, there is a clever solution to all of the problems that currently plague mankind: "gouge their eyes out". Yes, then we would have the blind leading the blind...

  Posted by dave jr on 02/20/12 03:39 PM

Yes, the army and the currency, which needs to be hijacked from the people. Self defense and trade loaned out for a better future. As if there is no price high enough for destruction and destitute.

You know? I don't think anyone has to worry about overpopulation. I think our creator has hard wired a solution by way of self defeat into our genes.

  Posted by speedygonzales on 02/20/12 04:55 PM

The importance of having Jeb Bush as the next American President, this FSB report says, would be his joining with his fellow Catholic convert Tony Blair, who as the former Prime Minister of Britain, and head of The Church of England, and rumored to be the next President of the European Union, 'paved the way' for the Church's plan to reassert itself as the main controlling power of the Western world.

The 'grave danger' to having the Catholic Church control both the United States and the European Union, this report continues, is its plan for a 'One World Government' Pope Benedict XVI called for this past October (2011) and as we can, in part, read:

'In the same spirit of Pacem in Terris, Benedict XVI himself expressed the need to create a world political authority. This seems obvious if we consider the fact that the agenda of questions to be dealt with globally is becoming ever longer.

Think, for example, of peace and security; disarmament and arms control; promotion and protection of fundamental human rights; management of the economy and development policies; management of the migratory flows and food security, and protection of the environment.

In all these areas, the growing interdependence between States and regions of the world becomes more and more obvious as well as the need for answers that are not just sectorial and isolated, but systematic and integrated, rich in solidarity and subsidiarity and geared to the universal common good.'
Click to view link

  Posted by speedygonzales on 02/20/12 05:00 PM

One thing. It is not about Europe.There is not such option. under NATO,IMF,UN,bankin cartel united we stand

  Posted by Abu Aardvark on 02/20/12 05:06 PM

"The economic union of Europe was not brought about by pundits like you but by truckers who revolted at having to stop at customs stations (... ) I was there when the truckers just left their trucks in every major highway, locked them and walked away and nothing could move. Within hours, the governments of Europe removed all the custom booths on the borders, fees too, just to get the highways cleared and moving again. That was in the early 1980's. That is how the United States of Europe got going."

-----------------------------------------

"Euro-federalists financed by US spy chiefs ... DECLASSIFIED American government documents show that the US intelligence community ran a campaign in the Fifties and Sixties to build momentum for a united Europe. It funded and directed the European federalist movement.

The documents confirm suspicions voiced at the time that America was working aggressively behind the scenes to push Britain into a European state. One memorandum, dated July 26, 1950, gives instructions for a campaign to promote a fully fledged European parliament. It is signed by Gen William J Donovan, head of the American wartime Office of Strategic Services, precursor of the CIA.

The documents were found by Joshua Paul, a researcher at Georgetown University in Washington. They include files released by the US National Archives. Washington's main tool for shaping the European agenda was the American Committee for a United Europe, created in 1948. The chairman was Donovan, ostensibly a private lawyer by then.

The vice-chairman was Allen Dulles, the CIA director in the Fifties. The board included Walter Bedell Smith, the CIA's first director, and a roster of ex-OSS figures and officials who moved in and out of the CIA. The documents show that ACUE financed the European Movement, the most important federalist organisation in the post-war years. In 1958, for example, it provided 53.5 per cent of the movement's funds.

The European Youth Campaign, an arm of the European Movement, was wholly funded and controlled by Washington. The Belgian director, Baron Boel, received monthly payments into a special account. When the head of the European Movement, Polish-born Joseph Retinger, bridled at this degree of American control and tried to raise money in Europe, he was quickly reprimanded.

The leaders of the European Movement - Retinger, the visionary Robert Schuman and the former Belgian prime minister Paul-Henri Spaak - were all treated as hired hands by their American sponsors. The US role was handled as a covert operation. ACUE's funding came from the Ford and Rockefeller foundations as well as business groups with close ties to the US government.

The head of the Ford Foundation, ex-OSS officer Paul Hoffman, doubled as head of ACUE in the late Fifties. The State Department also played a role. A memo from the European section, dated June 11, 1965, advises the vice-president of the European Economic Community, Robert Marjolin, to pursue monetary union by stealth."

((Telegraph, 19 Sep 2000)

Click to view link


"... the 'European project' was never intended to be a democratic institution.

The idea first conceived back in the 1920s by two senior officials of the League of Nations - Jean Monnet and Arthur Salter, a British civil servant - was a United States of Europe, ruled by a government of unelected technocrats like themselves. Two things were anathema to them: nation states with the power of veto (which they had seen destroy the League of Nations) and any need to consult the wishes of the people in elections.

As Richard North and I showed in our book The Great Deception, this was the idea that Monnet put at the heart of the 'project' from 1950 onwards, modelling his 'government of Europe' on precisely the same four institutions that made up the League of Nations - a commission, a council of ministers, a parliament and a court. Thus, step by step over decades, Monnet's technocratic dream has come to pass."

(Telegraph, 12 Nov 2011)

Click to view link

You're welcome, Trucker.

  Posted by Bischoff on 02/20/12 06:02 PM

"Prodi as much as confesses the plan in this short interview. Such sad times in so many ways."

Why all the sadness... ??? Helmut Kohl, as Romano Prodi, were both fully aware of the failure of the Bretton Woods Agreement. They understood that the way the "Fed" was running the central bank after 1971, and the USD/FRN as world reserve currency was going to hurt Europeans. Especially Germany had things to fear, and they acted. They wanted the Eurozone as defense against the "Fed".

Events have born them out. However, the ECB is still a central bank, though dominated by monetarily conservative bureaucrats, with the objective to structure the "European political and financial system" according to their interests.

While the Americans want everybody to come in underneath the UN, IMF, World Bank umbrella, the Chinese, Russians, Indians and increasingly the Europeans see it differently when it comes to world finance and the USD as world reserve currency.

In any case, be they Americans, Europeans, Russians, Indians or Chinese, they all are out to manage their own economies and by implication the world economy. It the "really smart" guys class of those societies who cannot help themselves but to insist that it takes their intellectual and political power to run the world.

Maybe with the information and knowledge available through the internet, the "little" guy will get smart enough to see that it's down at the local level where things happen, and that they have the potential to be just as smart as the "smart guys". Look at Jobs and Vosniak starting Apple in a garage, UPS starting with a horse and buggy, FedEx starting with a surplus airplane, etc., etc.

The little guy has to gain confidence in his own abilities. He can only do so, if he is informed. The internet gives him a chance to be informed. Therein lies the danger for the "really smart" guys to be replaced from modelling the world for us.

It'll come from the bottom up. I am convinced of it. Natural Law will see to it.

  Posted by thinker70 on 02/20/12 06:11 PM

History is replete with examples that man is incapable of ruling himself. Manifestations of human nature repeatedly shows that those most disposed towards wanting to rule over their fellow man are usually the least qualified. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts completely. Even the Bible addresses the problem now extant among humans.

Lucifer was ambitious to take over the throne of the Creator and has now succeeded (Rev.12:9) in instilling that ambition into dozens of despots the world has already experienced, and is the arguably unseen instigator of efforts by ambitious men to establish a one world government under their control.

This effort has many facets including religion, from the radical Muslim efforts to "kill the infidels" (anybody who will not convert to Islam) with Catholics likewise intolerant of Protestants, (though that rhetoric has been toned down in recent years for public consumption) and it also exists among some of the more radical orthodox Jewish factions.

While controlling the public media and educational systems (indoctrination would be a better term) are also high on the priority list to achieve their objectives, by far (IMO) the most crucial and controlling element is enslaving people to DEBT through the Ponzi scheme known as Fractional Reserve Central Banking, but which may just prove to be its Achilles Heel. Freedom loving people can help defeat this innocuous system by doing just two things, 1) refusing to invest in any debt instrument as a matter of principle, and 2) saving 10% of their income in the form of PHYSICAL gold and silver, again refusing to play the "paper games" of the elites who have also been successful in applying the fractional reserve Ponzi scheme to gold and silver by selling, by some experts opinion, as much as 100 "paper promises" for every oz. of gold and silver actually in existence as deliverable coins or bars.

When enough people are educated to this reality and ANGRY when they are unable to get the gold and silver they THOUGHT they were buying when they accepted paper receipts instead of demanding personal possession, then the jig will be up.

  Posted by Bischoff on 02/20/12 08:04 PM

"Freedom loving people can help defeat this innocuous system by doing just two things:

1) refusing to invest in any debt instrument as a matter of principle, and

2) saving 10% of their income in the form of PHYSICAL gold and silver, again refusing to play the "paper games" of the elites who have also been successful in applying the fractional reserve Ponzi scheme to gold and silver by selling, as much as 100 "paper promises" for every oz. of gold and silver actually in existence as deliverable coins or bars.

In general, as to both points, I fully agree.

In specfic to point 1), it must include home mortgage contracts, which finance a hugely inflated land value underneath the homes.

As to specifics regarding point 2), in my opinion it should exclude silver from savings. To speculate in silver as a commercial commodity is fine, if you can live with the fact that silver production and inventory figures are extremely difficult to obtain. However, I am sure that very little silver has been "leased". On the other hand, to keep a couple of bags as junk silver as currency until things settle down after a monetary collapse is only prudent. I would not recommend silver as a long term savings vehicle.

Furthermore, what point 2) points out is that the number of naked gold contracts being traded will never ever allow full delivery. These are the result of the "gold lease" scheme. Therefore, gold traders better be fully aware of the fact that their trading contract includes a "force majeure" clause, which when invoked will pay them off in currency in lieu of delivery of gold.

  Posted by Danny B on 02/20/12 10:09 PM

Jeffery Christian of the CPM group stated at a CFTC hearing that there is only one ounce of physical gold for every 100 ounces sold. He said that it is much the same for silver. He claimed that gold is unique in that it isn't eventually consumed. Therefore, any amount could be sold if it was always traded and never consumed.
Click to view link

The problem is that; Why stop at 100?
The LBMA and COMEX have been sloshing this around for so long, that many people believe that they actually have gold.
The Arabs, Chinese, Venezuelans, etc have all physically repatriated their gold. Germany isn't talking. Private holders have gotten so nervous that they are converting from "un-allocated" to "allocated".
This has served to severely shrink the pile of un-allocated gold at COMEX and LBMA.

COMEX is expected to go "naked" before the LBMA ,,, who really knows.

Speedygonzales posted a link showing that:
The Swaps and Derivatives Assoc meets beginning of May in CHICAGO.
The G-8 meets 2 1/2 weeks later in CHICAGO.
NATO meets 2 days later in CHICAGO

I expect that the swap & derivative people will NOT declare any defaults.
The investors, having learned their lesson with MF Global will desert the CBOT in CHICAGO.
That could very well crash Futures and Options in CHICAGO.
Click to view link

It may very well be that silver will go naked before gold. Silver is consumed in huge quantities. The medical industry has found that nothing else works against MRSA and a few other bugs
Only about 12 % of silver is available for investment.
Click to view link
That makes the supply fairly inelastic.

  Posted by bob on 02/21/12 12:23 AM

Let us review the Greek situation.

Using the GM & Chrysler medicine, Greece lenders could forgive most of Greek debts and the Central Banks could just print more funny-money compensating Greek debt holders.

Greece will have a "clean" start and, without accumulating new debts, will solve its problems. After all, the Central banks are printing mountains of funny money every single day. However, this solution would drastically reduce the Zionist Banking Mafia strangulation and enslavement of Greek people. From the Mafia point of view, such solution is NOT acceptable.

  Posted by Bischoff on 02/21/12 01:49 AM

"Germany isn't talking"

The Germans are desperately trying to get their gold back which is stored at Ft. Knox. Judging from the way the bailout for Greece is going, the Germans may soon have the leverage to get their gold out of Ft. Knox.

As to the term "naked", it is applied to contracts sold into the markets for which the commodity does not exist. Selling of naked contracts is fraud. However, if you "lease" gold while it is stored at Ft. Knox or at the FRB in NY, you have legal control over the gold you are selling, except that it isn't stored at the Exchange Warehouses.

When Bear, Sterns and Lehman Bros. went bankrupt, they defaulted on their gold lease obligations, yet the contracts are still trading on the exchanges. The lessor, such as the UST or the Fed, will never release the gold, because of default on the leases. The commodity exchanges know it, but they rely on their "force majeure" clause to get out of the delivery bind when push comes to shove. I would be very suprised, if during the May meeting in Chicago, the question of when to declare a "force majeure" situation isn't raised.

If you have a contract now, and you want to take delivery, or especially if you intent to place a buy order for a future gold contract specifying delivery, don't be suprised, if the broker shows you the door. He wants to keep his job.

As you pointed out, gold is "Money". It isn't a commodity to be consumed. There is 80 years worth of annual production of gold stored in vaults throughout the world.

Can anybody tell me the inventory of silver based on annual production... ??? For Platinum it is 2 years, for copper it is 3 month. For silver, who knows... ???

Unlike gold, silver is an industrial commodity. The propaganda that it is money, and that the historic ratio of silver to gold proves that silver is undervalued, is just huey. I am quite certain that the contention that there are a large number of naked silver contracts traded on the exchanges, is false. I know of no silver lease concluded that has ever been announced in the financial media.

Reliable production and inventory figures for silver are extremely hard to obtain. The Chinese are notoriuosly closemouthed about their production and inventory figures. Russia isn't any better. Even Canadian figures about silver are ambiguous. Why... ???

I have no good answer, except to say that there exists a future opportunity to really suck it to the uninitiated. The uninitiated are the people who believe that silver is Money, the same as gold is Money. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Junk silver coins are useful as currency when confusion and turmoil reigns after the collapse of the fiat monetary system. However, the trick is NOT to let it come to a collapse.

Gold, and gold alone, will be the tool to avert a collapse. Silver will have no part in it. Anybody who bets on the mistaken belief that silver will be part of the "money" supply, will do so at his detriment.

  Posted by Optout on 02/21/12 04:32 PM

Gold, and gold alone, will be the tool to avert a collapse. Silver will have no part in it. Anybody who bets on the mistaken belief that silver will be part of the "money" supply, will do so at his detriment.

I am certainly not the best of historians but that statement does not make sense to me. I thought silver coins have traded for a long time. Dating back to a time when Spain was a big player in world trade. What makes gold currency and silver just a commodity? Is silver not currency because it has many industrial applications now that it didn't have 100 years ago?

  Posted by Bischoff on 02/21/12 11:24 PM

Thank you for your questions. Let's see, if I can give you some sensible answers.

As far back as three thousand years ago, gold took on an "objective" value because countless number of people accepted gold as the most reliable store of value. This is how Gold became "Money". Money as the indermediate commodity in the exchange of goods and services made transaction very much more efficient, both over time and over space.

For 2,500 years, gold functioned as medium of exchange (currency), besides being the universally accepted store of value (ideally suited for "savings").

As currency, Gold also became the measure of value, the standard against which all "subjective" value of other goods and services were judged.

The "money system" was such an improvement over the "barter system" that the demand for goods sky rocketed. Goods production, which 500 years ago was a cottage industry, started to be performed in factories employing capital and labor.

The manufacturing of goods required the financing of the production process. However, the physical supply of gold was insufficient to function as a medium of exchange for goods and services, and to also to finance the production of goods.

The solution was to use silver as a medium of exchange instead of gold. Until the Comstock Lode, which was a pure silver find, silver was normally found along with gold deposits at a ratio of 1:15.

It is such that silver coins became the dominant medium of exchange, while it also became the measure value for the Spanish Dollar and the British Pound Sterling. The Coinage Act of 1792 accepted the measure of value of the Spabnish Pillar Dollar as the measure of value for the USD along with gold at the market price of silver for gold.

In the United States, both silver and gold as currency soon lost its function. Redeemable currency created under the Real Bills Doctrine took the place of monetary metal. Gold maintained its function as the most reliable store of value, as well as the measure of value, because of the redemption requirement associated with the RBD currency.

Since RBD currency was redeemable in gold, people could save "redeemable" currency. Redeemable currency totally replaced the need for silver as currency. When the Comstock Lode came in, the 1:15 gold to silver ratio destroyed and the once held function of measuring value with it.

In the late 1880s, Silver mining interests were pitted against the gold standard advocates. The presidential campaigns involving William Jennings Bryan as presidential candidate made the gold:silver controversy legendary.

In 1900, the gold standard interests won out, and the U.S. officially established the gold standard. Silver certificates kept circulating and were encouraged by States like Nevada and Idaho in order for the UST to buy their silver production.

The Coinage Act of 1964 eliminated silver certificates and silver coins. U.S. Citizens were unable to hold gold from 1933 until 1975. The U.S. went off the international bullion standard with the suspension of redemption of USD for foreign banks in 1971.

From August 15, 1971 on, the USD represented by the irredeemable FRN after. The Coinage Act of 1982 gave the FRN "legal tender" protection.

That's what we have today as currency. However, the "legal tender" FRN is not a viable currency. It never was, but this wasn't apparent in the early stages of the currency regime. When it finally becomes obvious though, it leaves very few option to escape a currency collapse.

This is where my comments come in. The one solution which exists, which can avert a total collapse of the "legal tender" FRN, is to establish a parallel "redeemable" RBD currency. This allows people to save some of their assets by discounting their investments for redeemable currency, instead of losing everything.

It requires the lifting of the "legal tender" protection for the FRN. It requires the revival of private commercial banking to create a "redeemable" currency against Real Bills and gold. The amount of gold required for this purpose is minor, as the redeemable currency is used mostly for consumption purchases and thus functions as a clearing instrument. With the RBD currency, we are back to the same currency as created by George Clymer and Benjamin with the Bank of Philadelphia and later as redeemable currency in use in the U.S. for a 185 years.

There is no place for silver in the plan to return to RBD banking. Silver is not needed as currency. However, it is in heavy demand as an industrial commodity. It performs a function in that capacity which is far superior than that as a monetary metal.

Gold has always been the standard of value and the standard of measure. Silver functioned well as currency while it lasted, and was a standard of measure when the ratio of 1:15 was set by the Congress. When the Comstock Lode put this ratio out of all proportions, silver was abondoned as the standard of measure.

Silver is not needed as a standard of measure today. It is not needed as currency today. It is in high demand as an industrial commodity.

Traders will have a field day with novices flooding the silver market thinking that silver is Money. It is not. IMHO, production and inventory figures for silver are kept under wraps to gain an advantage in trading silver.

However, let me add that junk silver coins are useful should a total collapse of the FRN currency occur. Upon a collapse, there will be chaos for a few month when silver coins come in very handy.

However, as a vehicle for savings, silver is not a good selection. Ask Warren Buffett. He held huge tonnages of silver, not as a speculator, but as savings. Then he realized that silver wasn't "Money" and just an industrial commodity, and he got rid of it. I doubt he lost money. However, novices investing in silver contracts will not be so lucky, IMHO.

Gold is a commodity with constant marginal utility (most liquid commodity in the world) which makes it Money. Gold is not an industrial commodity, though about 10% of gold is transformed into jewelry. However, jewelry
is quickly turned into coin or bullion again, so that all gold is considered in inventory figures. There is 80 years worth of annual production of gold in vaults all over the world. What other proof is needed to show that Gold is MONEY... ???

Silver was the "Ersatz" currency to gold as currency. RBD redeemable currency replaced silver as currency even before the Civil War. Silver coins today trade for numismatic value, but they are not Money.

  Posted by Optout on 02/22/12 09:46 AM

Thanks for the reply.

A couple of observations on my part are (and I am viewing this as an investment choice): 1)if the dollar does take a big dump, commodities in general will be supported and 2) be ready to move your silver investment into either gold or an asset such as ag land.

There could be many people who are wrong about silver being currency. But the sales of silver eagles, the Austrailian Kookaburra and the Canadian silver coin have been up dramatically the past couple of years. Which indicates to me that many people think it is currency and would rather own that than fiat currency.

The fact that production and inventory numbers are not reported could go either way. It seems there are some big money shorts in the market for some reason other than being producers with a hedge.

And maybe Warren Buffet got out of his silver holdings when he got in bed with the PE.

Again, thanks for the historical perspective. Where this economic mess is headed I have no idea. But I do know I don't want my long term savings in the dollar.

  Posted by Bischoff on 02/22/12 01:00 PM

The USD is still the most valuable currency, bar none. The reason is that Saudi crude is quoted only in USD, and every country needs USD as reserve currency to pay their oil bills.

In turn for the Saudi's quoting oil prices exclusively in USD (they are the marginal cost producers), the U.S. is committed to insure the unhampered transportation of Saudi oil out of the Persian Gulf. Unless the U.S. can be dissuaded from doing that, the USD will be the reserve currency.

If the USD collapses, it will have a deflationary effect. The commodities will plummet in value. Agricultural land is a speculation which is as fraught with risk as any other investment, maybe even more so.

Moving silver into gold when push comes to shove, will amount to a great loss for the silver holder. There will be many people assuming silver is money, and they will be wrong. Silver can function as currency for a short period of time during turmoil, but that is all.

Using silver as currency, with a "subjective" value much closer to the "objective" value of gold than is the "subjective" value of a piece of fiat currency paper, is not an argument why one should hold silver instead of real money, which is gold.

As to the hedging of silver, I suggest you search the DB archives on the nature of silver investment by Dr. Antal Fekete. His article goes back a few month.

Buffet had no choice but to cozy up to the PE. They run the Fed central bank, and all his investments are denominated in Fed central bank currency. So what choice does he have... ??? He's done what he can to shield his fortune from the government by giving it to the Gates foundation. However, while he runs Berkshire-Hathaway, he needs the USD to maintain value. That means printing plenty of them to pay the interest on UST debt, and keeping the Chinese and the Saudis content with U.S. monetary, fiscal and national security policies. If he has to be a reluctant tool in the clutches of the PE, it goes with the territory.

You are quite correct. Your savings should be in gold. When the central bank currency regime collapses, there is only one real solution. It is to return to the creation of RBD currency which requires the capital investment of gold. While you cannot earn a return on gold these days, unless you are sophisticated enough to write options on your gold holdings, you are better off putting all your savings into gold. When fiat currencies collapse, you can discount Real Bills which will be the solution to getting the economy working again.

On the other hand, if you are embivalent about gold, one thing is clear, the value of an ounce of gold is not determined by how many USD you have to give up for it. To the contrary, the value of the USD is determined by how many ounces of gold you have to give of for one (1) USD.

  Posted by Optout on 02/22/12 03:09 PM

So I fully agree with the Saudi crude/dollar valuation. But I run into a problem here. Crude oil is a commodity. If the dollar plummets I don't expect crude oil to fall with it, or corn, soybeans, wheat or silver. Would not a decreasing dollar value be chasing commodities to own something with 'value'? Which to me is inflation. Or am I missing a point here that you feel the whole system would implode and nobody would know what to do? How to value anything? If not commodities what would the dollars be invested in? Gold only?

My reference to ag land was more of the point that at least it could produce something of value (a return).

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