News & Analysis
Mr. Goldberg Apologizes for His Mises/Phone Booth Crack?
NYT on the Austrian School ... "It was 'The Road to Serfdom' by Friedrich Hayek that became the ur-text of Mr. Paul's emerging ideology, introducing him to Austrian economics and its Manichaean choice between laissez-faire capitalism and a government-run economy destined for disaster. (Mainstream economists have long dismissed the Austrian school, but it retains a devoted following among libertarians and some conservatives.)" ... I guess it depends what you mean by "mainstream" and "Austrian school," given those Nobel prizes for Friedrich Hayek, James Buchanan, and Milton Friedman. I'm not saying that the Austrian school is dominant or anything like that, and there are many –sometimes conflicting — views that one might identify as Austrian, but this strikes me as awfully glib, no? – Jonah Goldberg / National Review blog
Dominant Social Theme: Well, the Austrians have gotten a little bigger and a bit more noticed. OK.
Free-Market Analysis: Many years ago, leading conservative pundit Jonah Goldberg lost his temper and wrote that Lew Rockwell (of LewRockwell.com and Mises.org) and his libertarian colleagues could fit into a "phone booth."
Not so fast. Today, those who have a lively interest in Austrian free-market economics or who are outright supporters of the magnificent ideas inherent in "human action" and free-market money are a forceful factor throughout the blogosphere.
Goldberg, in this blogsite squib, belatedly seems to acknowledge this (see excerpt above). Of course, in our humble view he still gets it wrong, conflating Friedman with Hayek, which is a little bit like lumping Judas in with the rest of the Disciples.
Friedman, as time goes on, is seen more and more as an apologist for central banking; and the Chicago Freshwater School itself may be seen as laissez-faire lite – sort of a "CATO" by the Great Lakes.
It is fine to rave about government interference in the marketplace as Friedman often did. But his "serious" writing constantly advocates for fiat-monopoly money within the context of a "steady state." By this he meant that central bankers should inject enough money into the economy but not too much.
He even had a number picked out. Say what? Well ... Friedman believed for the longest time that one could approach something called the "economy" using the "science" of central banking. Like so many other apologists for state power, he believed central bankers could fix prices but that they simply weren't doing it properly.
As Friedman's star continues to decline, we see evidence that Austrian economic guru Ludwig von Mises' continues to rise. History is funny that way, often rewarding in the long term those who best present reality, whether or not that reality is recognized in their lifetimes.
Do an Internet search for Mises and you'll come up with maybe three million direct cites. Keynes has only a few hundred thousand more. But a decade ago, you'd have been hard pressed to come up with more than a few dozen cites for Mises – probably all of them generated by the two founders of the Mises foundation, Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard.
The growth of the Austrian school has been nothing short of phenomenal. It is EVERYWHERE on the Internet where people interested in ideas gather to exchange views. Even those who are pro-statist and anti-freedom need to deal with the Austrians now. They need to deal with the concepts of Human Action and the acute analysis that modern economies are run into the ground on a regular basis by the central banking-fueled business cycle.
These two concepts, human action and the modern business cycle, are demolishing conventional wisdom about the economy. They are unstoppable truths that undermine the foundations of elite Keynesian economics the way water undermines the foundation of even the most impressive edifice.
It is the Anglosphere power elite that has painstakingly built up modern economics – and what a meretricious construct it is. At its heart lies the enormous lie that good, gray central bankers can fix the price of money on a daily, weekly, monthly and annual basis.
Of course, every price fix is a marketplace distortion, transferring wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't and are less well equipped to utilize it productively. Over time, this wealth transfer creates market bubbles and then ruinous depressions. We're living through one now.
Austrian economics is part of an economic conversation that goes back 500 years or more (in its modern evolution anyway). It was an Austrian that conceptualized marginal utility, the idea that prices are fungible at the "margin" and only the Invisible Hand can determine them.
The concept of marginal utility is the dividing line between the static "old school" of classical economics (think Malthus and Marx) and the dynamic "new" economics of the neo-classical school.
Interestingly, almost all reputable economists claim to be neo-classical now. But it's simply a rhetorical statement. The Germans and British reclaimed the stubborn, old classical economics with their reliance on econometrics.
Econometrics is the idea that one can predict human behavior if one applies properly complex equations to an adequate amount of data. Econometrics is applied throughout the world by governments large and small to justify new laws and regulations.
But common sense tells us that econometrics cannot work any better than any other kind of forecasting device. As soon as people experience the regulatory fiat, they will react and change their behavior. In fact, they will often change their behavior even BEFORE the laws and regulations are written.
It was the Germans who, when confronted with Austrian, free-market analysis, lost their collective temper and labeled the laissez faire school "Austrian" in contempt. But the original Austrians themselves adopted the name proudly as a badge of honor.
The reason that Austrian economics has swept the blogosphere is because it is the only school that tells the truth about the world. Most people in this world are apparently damaged in childhood and grow up wanting to control other people. Going into politics and writing laws is a good way to do this.
Austrian economics confronts these damaged people – who compensate for the lacunae in their own souls by attempting to control others – with the truth about their behavior. It is hard to tolerate exposure and powerbrokers often react petulantly to economic truths by attacking the messenger. This is why Austrian economics, as it grows ever more popular, is increasingly being attacked by low-level supporters of Anglosphere elite policies.
The Anglosphere itself – the top central banking families – are obviously involved in a campaign against Austrian economics as well. They are using sub-dominant social themes – fear-based promotions – to try to cast aspersions on the school.
Conclusion: Whether or not Goldberg has actually apologized for his initial statement, what cannot be denied is that Austrian, free-market economics is "sweeping the board." It is not doing so because it is somehow a backhanded elitist plot (a part of a larger dialectic) but because it provides people with something very rare in this world: The truth.
l 
|
You must be a site member to submit suggested edits or post feedback. In addition to submitting edit suggestions and posting feedback, your Free Membership to The Daily Bell gives you access to our Member Zone where you will discover a plethora of other member benefits. Want to learn more? click here |
|||||
|
|
||||
 |
Posted by Black_Knight on 02/12/12 07:03 AM
DB: Again, after a certain point, simply repeating falsehoods for whatever agenda you serve does not add even incrementally to an honest dialogue.
BK: OK, Here is a final recapitulation, in one post, with links, of all the evidence I have found showing connections between power elites and leading Austrian economists. Note that almost all of this material is directly sourced from Wikipedia. I added a few new items to appease the DB censors. [To DB: you can choose not to post this, it's all saved on my computer anyway]
I would only ask the DB to let the readers follow the links and judge for themselves. I believe that the presentation in one post makes it easier for everyone to follow.
I. Leading Austrian economists and their connections to power elites:
1. Carl Menger (1840-1921), acknowledged founder of the Austrian School:
a) personal tutor to the Crown Prince of Austria (Habsburg)
b) appointed to head a commission to reform the Austrian monetary system (late 1880)
c) appointed to the Imperial Council of Austria in 1900.
Source: Wikipedia
Click to view link
2. Eugen Böhm von Bawerk (1851-1914), notable for his justification of interest (History and Critique of Interest Theories, 1884), teacher of Mises and Schumpeter
a) Austrian minister of Finance for several years from 1895-1904 (intermittently)
Source: Wikipedia
Click to view link
3. Friedrich Von Hayek (1899-1992), Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences (1974)
a) Member of the London School of Economics, associated with the Fabian Society
b) Co-founder of the Mont Pelerin Society
c) Sponsored by the William Volker Fund
Sources: Wikipedia
Click to view link
Click to view link
Click to view link
4. Ludwig Von Mises (1881-1973), perhaps the most influential Austrian economist
a) Secretary at the Vienna Chamber of Commerce (1909-1934)
b) Advisor to Otto von Habsburg, the claimant to the throne of Austria
c) In New York, worked with ultra-elite member Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi (old European nobility, co-founder with Otto von Habsburg of the Pan-European Union). According to Margit Herzfeld's (Mises's wife) biography of Mises, Mises participated in the Pan-Europe movement in 1943.
d) Co-founder of the Mont Pelerin Society
e) Had professional and/or personal relationships with Lord Lionel Robbins (London School of Economics), French president Charles de Gaulle, and president of Italy Luigi Einaudi
f) Funded by the Rockefeller Foundation
'Many readers may be surprised to learn the extent to which the Graduate Institute and then Mises himself in the years immediately after he came to United States were kept afloat financially through generous grants from the Rockefeller Foundation. In fact, for the first years of Mises's life in the United States, before his appointment as a visiting professor in the Graduate School of Business Administration at New York University (NYU) in 1945, he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.'
Source: Richard M. Ebeling, The Life and Works of Ludwig von Mises
g) Funded by the William Volker Fund (See Hayek)
Sources: Wikipedia
Click to view link
Click to view link
5. Murray Rothbard (1926-1995), popularized anarcho-capitalism
a) Core member of CATO's founding group [Note to DB: this is from Wikipedia], initially funded by the Koch family
b) Attended and gave speeches at the Mont Pelerin Society
c) Funded by the William Volker Fund (See Hayek)
Sources: Wikipedia, several online sources for the Mont Pelerin Society
Click to view link
Click to view link
II. Leading power elites and their connections to Austrian economics
1. Alan Greenspan said in 2000, "the Austrian School have reached far into the future from when most of them practiced and have had a profound and, in my judgment, probably an irreversible effect on how most mainstream economists think in this country.'
Source: Wikipedia
Click to view link
2. David Rockefeller: 'Finally, in his most surprising statement, he revealed he considers himself a follower of the Austrian school of economics. Friedrich Hayek had been his tutor at the London School of Economics in the 1930s.'
Source: Mark Skousen's website
Click to view link
Reply from The Daily Bell
Again, the smearing by association. You are someone who has spent much of his time on this thread basically insisting that Jewish culture and texts are to blame for the ills of the world. Thus, you are predisposed toward criticism of the Austrian school as it explains the world in terms of free market theory rather than by blaming a particular ethnic group.
This sticks in your craw. You will do absolutely anything to discredit theories or knowledge that undermine your theories that the Jews are singularly to blame for the problems of the world.
It is impossible in this world to survive in a bubble. One of the reasons the Austrian School was influential was because it was rooted partially in the Austrian state, certainly to begin with.
But this is heresy to you. You are the kind of person who would discredit Thomas Jefferson's great writings and freedom oriented philosophy because he owned slaves and participated in the Louisiana Purchase. For you, ideas cannot exist outside of someone's actions and associations. If it does not pass whatever purity test you have decided to apply, it is to be rendered suspect in your eyes. Mighty convenient.
One of your heroes, Clifford Hugh Douglas, the inventor of "social credit," from which you are lately drawing most of your crackpot perspectives, was apparently a liar who padded his resume by claiming to be a Reconstruction Engineer for Westinghouse in India, though there are no records for this claim (Wikipedia). He is apparently lumped together with Karl Marx by Keynes (who should know) and is said to have used the Protocols of Zion as a reference point for his views.
Douglas believed government should distribute money directly to workers and that government should also regularly offer a "just price" to forestall inflation. This is the man whose views you endorse.
Again, in addition to smearing the Austrian school by association, we find you in favor of government schemes and price fixing. Your smearing-by-association is selective indeed.
What matters is the actual THEORY that was produced. Modern Austrian theory has produced the business cycle theory that discredited central banking and the Misesian concept of human action that shows the STATE ITSELF cannot interfere successfully in the market economy.
These insights, especially human action, laid the groundwork for the modern anarchist movement, itself an outgrowth of the libertarian movement that the Austrian anarcho capitalist Murray Rothbard helped found. The Austrian movement is part of a 500 year-old market conversation. That's what gives it its seriousness and intellectual heft.
The Austrian school has led both directly and indirectly to modern market theory. The gold standard issue in fact is a red herring as neo Austrians like Selgin and White are oriented around free-banking, as is DB - monetary competition in other words. But since you know nothing of Austrian theory but a few "names," you would not know that either.
We repeat, you thrown out a series of wild accusations regarding Rothbard, the founding of the Austrian school, its associates and theories. In every case, when proven wrong, you've merely moved onto the next accusation.
We suggest most strongly that you take some time off from commenting here and actually do some reading before you comment further.
 |
Posted by rossbcan on 02/12/12 06:29 AM
"In fact, the points made by rossbcan, mosquito, and the DB (the latest comments) would suggest that it is very possible that the top financial elites would have supported Austrian economics."
DON'T misinterpret meaning and attempt faux arguments using misinterpreted comments in support of your lies. Elites are always seeking advantage. Early funding of the Austrian school had the potential to yield powerful pretexts / lies such as Keynes or truth such at Mises, both "of use" to elites.
Lies are encouraged throughout the "mighty wurlitzer" of elite media, educational and corecion of "leaders" apparatus and used to fraudulently achieve "tolerance of the governed" and trick people into making incorrect choices, costly to them, beneficial to elites:
Click to view link
Truth (the REAL relationship between action and consequence), on the other hand is also "of use" to elites, it allows them to devise scams, nudge them along and reap the consequences. Problem is, since virtually ALL elite goal-seeking methods are criminal, involving the initiation of aggression (force / fraud), to have the marks aware of truth allows them to also predict consequences and "avoid traps", or, more dangerously for elites, construct traps, for elites.
Thus, memehunter's / BK' false allegation that early elite funding of Austrian means that Austrian is a faux pole of a manipulative elite hegellian dialectric is REFUTED.
... and the important point is brought to the fore that elites also buy into human action and Austrian economics, but for private gain, while forcing the rest of us to suffer coerced economic organization, making choices in a false environment that is certain to economically destroy us, individually and collectively, for elite "profit".
Correct CHOICE is everything and, elites KNOW it:
Click to view link
|
Posted by RR on 02/12/12 03:09 AM
This rabbit hole runs so deep I am really amazed. Relax, smile and enjoy. Ha haa. there are a bunch of old reptilian aliens who have too much carbon dioxide on earth effecting their brains, makes them think they are gods and makes them do strange things.. Not one in a million human has a clue what is going on. In fact if you understand all this you may be an alien or from Atlantis and you don't even know it. Escape to the international space station if you can for the next few years. Exciting times ahead !
Reply from The Daily Bell
As you have nothing constructive to say, you are welcome to post somewhere else. We would be relieved. This is nothing but nonsense.
|
Posted by Black_Knight on 02/12/12 01:24 AM
Oh, I knew you would do that, I can repost my comment here to save readers some trouble:
"That's all you can come up with?
Look, I can also start my own blog linking to the DB and criticizing you.
Perhaps you should really start thinking for yourself instead of believing everything the DB is telling you. Click on the links I offered, read for yourself, etc…
Anyway, you can enjoy criticizing me on your website if that somehow makes you feel better. I should probably be flattered…"
 |
Posted by Agent Weebley on 02/12/12 01:09 AM
nice comment, memehunter or is it black knight?
Click to view link
|
Posted by Black_Knight on 02/12/12 01:01 AM
BM: "Replacing one form of centrally-planned currency (AKA Federal Reserve Notes) for another form of centrally-planned currency (AKA The people's money, debt free money, money issued by congress, money issued by state legislatures, etc.) is just two forms of the same thing."
BK: I have advocated several times a preference for a free market for currencies, with, ideally, some of them being interest-free. I believe Migchels did the same. You know this, the DB knows this, every regular reader here knows this, yet you somehow keep claiming that I am for a "centrally planned monetary system".
It cannot be by honest interpretation that you make such a statement about my positions.
BM: "Even (most) Austrians who advocate gold do so only in a market-derived and enforced mechanism, making quite clear that a state-enabled and enforced gold standard is little better than the situation today."
BK: The elites control most of the gold. A private gold standard (which is already dishonest, being based on "paper gold") combined with interest will lead (again) to a total control of the money supply by Money Power.
I make an important distinction between physical gold (as a store of value) and bankers' schemes such as "private gold standards" and "private gold-backed currencies", which are not truly "honest money". If you haven't already, you may want to read the following:
FOFOA: "The Return to Honest Money"
Click to view link
BK: "Replacing today's centrally planned monetary system for a different centrally planned monetary system on the one hand; replacing today's centrally planned monetary system with market derived money on the other hand."
Three points:
1. I said many, many, many times that interest-free credit issued by the government is not an ideal solution, but at least it is better than the current situation because we would not pay interest to a cartel of private banks. Do you prefer to pay interest to a cartel of private banks? And, if so, how do you justify it?
2. Both Keynesianism and Austrianism ignore compound interest and do not even acknowledge the exponential growth associated with a compound-interest debt-based currency. I am neither for Keynesianism, nor for Austrianism.
3. I do advocate "minimal government", by I do not believe that the government is necessarily and intrinsically evil, always and in all circumstances. On the other hand, I see nothing that can be said in defense of Money Power, because it is based on the exploitation of others' resources and labors.
Of course, I have said these things several times, but it does not prevent you or the DB for continually mis-representing my positions. I wonder why you feel the need to consistently do so (at this point, I don't need to ask this question in the case of the DB, of course... ).
|
Posted by Black_Knight on 02/12/12 12:30 AM
DB: DB is offered free of charge to anyone who wants to read it. We respond regularly to those who comment on our articles, especially if their comments are especially complimentary or exceptionally ignorant. Memehunter (AKA the Black Knight) falls into the latter category. For this, he has received our attention.
BK: Thank you for these well deserved compliments. I am flattered (sincerely).
DB: We also believe he has ulterior motives and have chosen to confront him instead of banning him. There seems to us no doubt that a more organized attack on Austrian economics is forming in the bowels of the blogosphere.
BK: I have ulterior motives?
Please honestly answer these questions: Who funds the DB? Is Anthony Wile still consulting for top "Anglosphere" banks?
DB: It is a kind of Psyops in our view, and as a free-market oriented website, we're doubtless a target. We could ignore it, but we choose to see it as an educational opportunity as well. That's our mission.
BK: Well, my mission on the DB, for the last few days at least, has been to show two (2) things - nothing more, nothing less:
1. That it is not true that the "power elites REALLY dislike Austrian economics"
2. That both Austrianism and Keynesianism are supported by the power elites; that they are both part of a Hegelian dialectic, and that they both serve the interests of the power elites (though probably in different ways).
As RR said, "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
We are now getting into Stage 2. I will probably not be posting on this website by the time we get to Stage 3 (either because I will have been banned or I will have found more useful things to do), but, mark my words, many readers on this website will, sooner or later, get to Stage 3.
One day, some of the feedbackers who most violently oppose the idea that Austrianism is part of a dialectic with Keynesianism, with both serving the interest of the power elites, will realize that this is nothing but the truth.
Reply from The Daily Bell
The idea that Rothbard and Rockwell deliberately created a "dialectic" with Rockefeller elites in order to advance Keynesianism has no basis in fact and you can not provide a shred of evidence for it. Again, after a certain point, simply repeating falsehoods for whatever agenda you serve does not add even incrementally to an honest dialogue. The nonsense you have provided, like associating Rothbard with CATO, when it is well known that Rothbard and CATO were adversaries, only further illustrates the dishonesty of your perspective. You are welcome to repeat such drivel elsewhere. Not here.
As far as a larger dialectic goes, you are about 75 years to late. That dialectic was engaged between Hayek and Keynes. You obviously knew nothing of that either. You even claimed Austrian economics began in the late 1920s as a result of a pan-European movement.
It seems to us that by clogging threads with obvious falsehoods, born either of ignorance or purposeful misinformation, you are not doing yourself or our audience any good. We suggest a hiatus. Take several months off, (perhaps six, preferably), actually read about the Austrian free market school, Human Action etc., then return here with some minimal education about the concepts on which you have commented so glibly and inaccurately.
This would be our "recommendation."
|
Posted by Black_Knight on 02/12/12 12:19 AM
BM: "The knowledge of true(Austrian) economics (as true as anything that involves human action) combined with the ability to both influence and dictate the actions of the central banks and the state actors would be of tremendous use to the elite. Ross pinpoints this quite well.
BK, or MH (or whatever) is peddling that it is surprising that an elite player follows the Austrian school. There is nothing surprising about this. One moment of thought would lead him to conclude that of course the elite would want to follow this school."
BK: Did I not read "would be of tremendous use to the elites"? Is that not a plausible reason to believe that the elites supported Austrian economics?
Sorry, it is a completely honest interpretation of your statement. You may recant if you wish, but that is what you wrote.
|
Posted by Agent Weebley on 02/11/12 09:32 PM
I'm sorry . . . St Finbar's
That should have read as dial dial dial ectic
Click to view link
|
Posted by Agent Weebley on 02/11/12 09:17 PM
So let me get this straight, since I've been out all day . . .
1) memehunter has ironically morphed into The Pythonesque Black Knight on this site, which is against the Avatar Code Of Conduct (code blue)
2) Migchels blew a proverbial fuse and said "your economics sucks" which really hurts his credibility and shows his impatience with respect to: "how come no-one buys into my diversionary "interest" sh*t?"
3) Everyone here now knows how long a meme has to brew before it is imbibed without gagging; no-one believes "the quick dip" and is now galvanized into understanding how a dialtectic is constructed, thanks to memehunter unsuccessfully trying to form one between the elite and Austrians.
Note: We have been parallelling this conversation with memehunter on our site starting here on Feb 9: Click to view link
I told him he and his father invaded vaded vaded vaded Narnia, but he didn't seem to get it!
Anyway, I made a segue away from memhunter's gay banter last night: Click to view link
We, at MetaPhoria, are completely invisible to memehunter, yet he thinks he can see us! He sees nussing! Perfect.
APT test. This is just a beta test.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Migchels blew a proverbial fuse and said "your economics sucks" which really hurts his credibility and shows his impatience ...
We were a bit surprised too.
|
Posted by JackN on 02/11/12 08:45 PM
"conflating Friedman with Hayek, which is a little bit like lumping Judas in with the rest of the Disciples"
and
"Friedman, as time goes on, is seen more and more as an apologist for central banking; and the Chicago Freshwater School itself may be seen as laissez-faire lite - sort of a "CATO" by the Great Lakes".
I can't express how deflating it is to see this continuing war between the Chicago School and the strict acolytes of von Mises and Hayek. While it is true that Friedman was not an Austrian by many measures that could be applied to the label, he was and his legacy remains a natural ally in the fight for economic liberty in the face of government interventionism. We should not apply standards of doctrinal purity when engaged in the public struggle for freedom. It is true that Milton was, particularly in his early years an advocate for the existence of the Fed - albeit with a radically different charge than exists under the dual mandate (A concept which he never supported as it is utterly impossible to achieve even under misguided modern banking theory. However, near the end of his life he acknowledged the futility of a centrally managed fractional banking system. In addition there are many more aspects to both civic and economic life in which he was in near total agreement with the Austrian School. When we factor in the unique ability he had to break down complex academic concepts to a level which could both be understood by and persuade a vast number of people who had been brought up in the Keynesian orthodoxy, it is foolish to turn our rhetorical fire on him with the viciousness displayed here and elsewhere in the Austrian blogosphere.
With the enemies of liberty arrayed around us on all sides, does it really make sense to turn our backs on the generations of conservatives who see Goldwater and Friedman as the standard bearers of the libertarian perspective. It is my contention that we have a bleak future ahead of us if we continue to debate labels and the demand for ideological purity that accompanies them. To me the world is divided into those who will, if emulated make me more free and those who engender the opposite result. Once we have driven Ben Bernankes, Paul Krugman and Harry Reids along with their ilk from the stage we may then have the luxury of debating the value of Mr. Friedman. Until that time let us unite under one banner which presents a unified message of expanding liberty vs a growing government hegemony.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Well ... point taken.
 |
Posted by Abu Aardvark on 02/11/12 07:58 PM
DB: "There seems to us no doubt that a more organized attack on Austrian economics is forming in the bowels of the blogosphere. It is a kind of Psyops in our view, and as a free-market oriented website, we're doubtless a target"
--------------------------
In Mr. Wile's recent editorial there's a quote out of R. Kagan's WSJ article that rang strangely familiar, yet twisted:
"There was nothing inevitable about the world that was created after World War II. No divine providence or unfolding Hegelian dialectic required the triumph of democracy and capitalism"
Click to view link
In aggregate, given your page impressions, your articles being featured on Infowars etc., and translated into more languages - in the context of an unprecedented mass "awakening" - it would seem that maybe you're having more of an impact than some people are willing to suffer ... motionless.
Hence, perhaps, "The Attack Of The Greenbackers" ... or "Does Robert Kagan Read The Daily Bell?"
Reply from The Daily Bell
Boy, you're scary. We noticed that, too, and though we didn't think of DB in particular, the phrase popped out at us. He knows what he's doing, he knows who he is addressing and why ...
|
Posted by bionic mosquito on 02/11/12 07:37 PM
"The likes of Bill Still, Anthony Migchels and a host of others and their shills are cop outs."
You have neatly summarized the absurdity of the positions taken by MH/BK and Migchels (and many others).
Replacing one form of centrally-planned currency (AKA Federal Reserve Notes) for another form of centrally-planned currency (AKA The people's money, debt free money, money issued by congress, money issued by state legislatures, etc.) is just two forms of the same thing.
As long as it is centrally planned and controlled, it will fully serve the purposes of the elite. Currency controlled by the state will be currency controlled by the elite. This is undeniable.
However to the "cop outs", (most) Austrians - advocating market based currency and money absent any central planning - are somehow serving the purposes of the elite.
Even (most) Austrians who advocate gold do so only in a market-derived and enforced mechanism, making quite clear that a state-enabled and enforced gold standard is little better than the situation today.
Replacing today's centrally planned monetary system for a different centrally planned monetary system on the one hand; replacing today's centrally planned monetary system with market derived money on the other hand.
Who is acting as a tool of the elite in this dialogue?
|
Posted by bionic mosquito on 02/11/12 07:22 PM
"Now that we have, together with the help of rossbcan and mosquito, found plausible reaons to believe that the top elites supported Austrian economics... "
It cannot be by honest interpretation that you make such a statement about my earlier comment.
|
Posted by RR on 02/11/12 07:08 PM
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,
it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
 |
Posted by onebornfree on 02/11/12 05:57 PM
Too funny!
I don't know about "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"'s "Black Knight" character, this thread [+ several recent related ones ] strikes me as being more like their " Argument Clinic" sketch: Click to view link .
I mean really, who the hell really cares if memehunter [or whomever] "misunderstands" or "misrepresents" [take your pick] Austrian economic theory?
What actual difference does it make to anyone's life here what he,she, or anyone else says about Austrian economics?
Get over it already, there are literally millions of other " memehunters", what are you going to do, "convert" them all, one by one?
Austrian Dolphin Training Anybody?
I would suggest, instead [ just to put everything in perspective, in case the "Argument Clinic" link above did not do it for you], a quick peek at expert Austrian dolphin trainer Ace Ventura: Click to view link .
And rest assured, it has absolutely nothing to do with "the truth" about Austrian economic theory :-) Regards, onebornfree
Reply from The Daily Bell
DB is offered free of charge to anyone who wants to read it. We respond regularly to those who comment on our articles, especially if their comments are especially complimentary or exceptionally ignorant. Memehunter (AKA the Black Knight) falls into the latter category. For this, he has received our attention.
We also believe he has ulterior motives and have chosen to confront him instead of banning him. There seems to us no doubt that a more organized attack on Austrian economics is forming in the bowels of the blogosphere.
It is a kind of Psyops in our view, and as a free-market oriented website, we're doubtless a target. We could ignore it, but we choose to see it as an educational opportunity as well. That's our mission. You may find it futile, but then again, you believe 9/11 was a holograph.
 |
Posted by dave jr on 02/11/12 05:31 PM
Based on the time stamp, you didn't give much consideration to my words. A basic courtesy of conversation is listening. I did that for you and got a knee jerk in return. Thanks
|
Posted by dave jr on 02/11/12 05:24 PM
Truth definitely will prevail, scary or not.
|
Posted by RR on 02/11/12 05:17 PM
Scare tactics do win short term,. Truth shall prevail.
|
Posted by dave jr on 02/11/12 05:09 PM
What do you mean by Countries? People or governments? People are responsible for their debts. Are people responsible for government debt created against their will? Especially when a good portion of the debt was created to enable the regulation of their economic activity into submission. Will removing the constraint of government debt, opening the door to unlimited regulation improve life in general?
Are you sure the cartel wants a gold standard? Do they want limitations on their power?
If you understand the nature of money and the nature of power, you would understand the elites have no need of gold in and of itself. They say it is barbaric. They need your/our service/subserviance and gold is only one means to that end. The supply of gold is limited, therefore its purchasing power is limited. Elites do not like to be limited. If they own a good portion of the worlds gold supply, it only serves them as a temporary insurance policy.
The US debt can not be repaid. It is a ponzi scheme predicated on fraud. The longer it continues the greater the pain will be. It is commonly said our grandchildren will have to pay back the debt. No, they will have to live through a default and revolt in opposition. They will have no choice but to revolt, the very thing prior generations didn't have the guts to do.
The likes of Bill Still, Anthony Migchels and a host of others and their shills are cop outs. The best lies are wrapped in truth. They know what they are doing and should be ashamed of themselves for selling out and carrying water for the enslaving minority class. They are no friends of humanity.
Until we decide to be responsible for ourselves, instead of accepting lies and faux promises, we will not improve.
For those religious folk, do not accept the mark of the beast.
|
|
