News & Analysis
9/11 and the Banality of Its Evil Narrative
9/11 and Al Qaeda: The price of victory ... Is Al Qaeda finished? As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 nears, it would certainly be welcome news that the organization that carried out those attacks has been defeated. On Sunday, The Times reported that Al Qaeda's reputed second in command, Atiyah Abdul Rahman, had been killed in Pakistan, probably in a strike by a U.S. drone: A few weeks after [Osama] bin Laden was killed in Pakistan during a raid by U.S. Navy SEALs, some analysts suggested that Rahman, a Libyan, had emerged as Al Qaeda's leader. That didn't turn out to be the case – the leadership spot went to Egyptian Ayman Zawahiri – but it underscored how central a role Rahman has played. And what's the big picture? As the story says: Rahman's death is likely to lend credence to a view in some U.S. policymaking circles that Al Qaeda's defeat is within reach. – LA Times
Dominant Social Theme: Get 'em, and make sure they're dead. Then things will be all right again.
Free-Market Analysis: This blog opinion from the "Times Opinion Staff" offers nothing much new in this retrospective on 9/11. As the tale of 9/11 continues to "age out" such articles shall become more common. They partake of what was once called the "banality of evil" – as their starting point is the deliberate falsehood of the 9/11 myth itself.
This banality of evil is intensely dangerous. Inevitably, the lack of truth gives rise to subtle oppression, and then eventually to obvious genocide. Those leaders that have taken their countries down such a road cannot sleep well at night. They think of nothing but murder and retribution.
Small, furtive murders become large and obvious ones over time. It is inevitable. It is human nature. Those who might have stopped it grow afraid. Those who are supposed to report on it, grow too frightened to do so.
Those who might challenge the broadening evil are two few and increasingly fragmented. Often they are imprisoned or even killed. Over time, such killings are taken for granted. An entire security apparatus is erected to eradicate a certain class of people – truth-tellers above all.
It is soon seen as inevitable and even unworthy of comment. What might have been exceedingly shocking to previous generations abides resignedly in the present. "That's how the world works," people mutter to themselves and their close friends. People's primary goal within this context is to stay out of trouble – to survive without getting caught.
What to compare this LA Times article to, then? One example that comes to mind is John Wayne Gacy, Jr., the serial killer also known as the Killer Clown who killed 33 teenage boys and young men between 1972 and 1978. He would regularly dress as Pogo the clown before finding his victims and luring them to their deaths.
Gacy was a banal man. Even his paintings, created on death row, are banal. This article, too, is banal, in terms of its wholehearted acceptance of the 9/11 myth. "Terrorists" commanded by Osama bin Laden and orchestrated from a cave in Afghanistan (that has never been found) attacked and brought down two of the most important buildings ever constructed in the West. Kerosene is said not to burn hotly enough to melt steel, and yet both buildings collapsed within hours.
The LA Times article is content to use the 9/11 myth as a jumping off point to discuss the reality of the modern terrorist evolution. But even a cursory examination brings up contradictions. The 9/11 Commission – many members at any rate, including the chief attorney – has become far less convinced over time of the narrative to which they signed their names. One has even written a book claiming the commission was lied to serially by military intelligence (FBI, CIA, etc.), the Pentagon and the Bush administration.
The BBC broadcast a report of the fall of a third structure, Building 7, a half-hour before it actually occurred; to this day the BBC has no explanation but has only reported that all the in-house video of the report has been inadvertently destroyed. The leaseholder of the Twin Towers seems to have spoken about "pulling" Building 7 before it actually came down. Building 7 apparently subsided into its own footprint for no apparent reason.
One could go on for perhaps another 1,000 anomalies (there are lists on the 'Net). There is no reason to. That terrible day needs to be revisited by a Commission with the power necessary to investigate what actually DID happen. What is SAID to have happened obviously did not; or whatever did happen differs substantially from the official narrative.
By treating evident untruths as reality, the article (excerpted above) reminds us of how much America has lost – and Europe, too. The painfully gathered freedoms of the past millennia are gradually being destroyed as a result of the security arrangements deemed necessary as a result of 9/11. Here's some more from the article:
A decade after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, federal and state governments are spending about $75 billion a year on domestic security, setting up sophisticated radio networks, upgrading emergency medical response equipment, installing surveillance cameras and bombproof walls, and outfitting airport screeners to detect an ever-evolving list of mobile explosives.
Which has some questioning whether that is money well spent: "The number of people worldwide who are killed by Muslim-type terrorists, Al Qaeda wannabes, is maybe a few hundred outside of war zones. It's basically the same number of people who die drowning in the bathtub each year," said John Mueller, an Ohio State University professor who has written extensively about the balance between threat and expenditures in fighting terrorism ...
On the other hand, just from an economic standpoint, the effort has been a plus: Homeland Security spending has been a pump-primer for local governments starved by the recession, and has dramatically improved emergency response networks across the country. An entire industry has sprung up to sell an array of products, including high-tech motion sensors and fully outfitted emergency operations trailers. The market is expected to grow to $31 billion by 2014.
No reason to grow upset, the article counsels. Without the mounting oppression of Homeland Security, the US would be even worse off than it is. Of course, this a rehearsal of the "broken window" fallacy. The idea is that destruction reaps economic benefits. In fact, the economic wealth effect is not enhanced by reducing freedoms or by allowing the military-industrial complex to make death-dealing devices that no one needs or wants.
People do not benefit by losing their freedoms. Societies are not made healthier via oppression. When the elites choose to lie about something so fundamental as 9/11, the larger society becomes immediately at risk as well. A twisted narrative will take root to justify, institutionally, whatever it is that actually happened.
The fundamental lie feeds upon itself. Those in charge will grow so nervous and disturbed that they shall take counteractive measures of the most violent sort. What is predictable, in the end, is a state Gulag system dedicated to incarcerating and perhaps murdering anyone who might question the dishonest narrative.
We have already reported on such a system that has been constructed in the Middle East. There is no doubt that sooner or later, under some pretext, it will be imported into the West as well, especially to America which is already far-gone from a domestic freedoms standpoint.
Sooner or later, we would guess, one shall need a passport to travel freely within America's shores and certain types of government clearance shall be needed merely to pass freely from place to place or even to hold a job. This does not seem to concern the LA Times blogger, however. He sees positive connotations:
There are the permanent changes in the way Americans now live ... Like the military-industrial complex that became a permanent and powerful part of the American landscape during the Cold War, the vast network of Homeland Security spyware, concrete barricades and high-tech identity screening is here to stay. The Department of Homeland Security, a collection of agencies ranging from border control to airport security sewn quickly together after Sept. 11, is the third-largest Cabinet department and – with almost no lawmaker willing to render the U.S. less prepared for a terrorist attack – one of those least to fall victim to budget cuts.
The blogger concludes on a patriotic note. "But when I think of the cost, what I see are the faces of our soldiers. Go here, to The Times' obituaries for California's war dead and read their stories. If we're safer today – and if Al Qaeda is crippled – we have these young men and women to thank."
We, too, do not question the patriotism of those who have given their lives in the fight against terror. It is a terribly sad thing. But we do question whether these youngsters were misled by the powers-that-be. We do wonder if they gave their lives for a cause – and a narrative – that does not truly exist.
Examine the history of al Qaeda; it seems initially at any rate a creation of the CIA – which was seeking homegrown Islamic fighters to counteract the invasion of the USSR into Afghanistan. Even the invention of Osama bin Laden is questionable, with many in the alternative media making the case that he too was a CIA operative.
Freedom is the first victim of institutional untruths. It is not up to critics of the 9/11 myth to explain what actually did happen. But whatever happened has not yet been fully explained. And the result has been a sizable and ongoing erosion of freedom in the West and especially in the US.
Now, as 9/11 ages into a full decade, we shall no doubt be bombarded by mainstream media stories that use the official narrative as a jumping off point. These articles shall be profoundly dangerous because of their matter-of-fact assumption that the official narrative is the correct one, when it is not.
Written as is this LA Times article, such articles shall adopt a tone of oracular omnipotence. They shall assume that the directed history of the recent past represents an actual reality when it does no such thing. They shall treat 9/11 as a crux event, turning America into something it never was. But they shall be wrong about the transformation – which was never inevitable nor perhaps even warranted.
Conclusion: When we come upon such narratives, as we no doubt shall more and more often in the coming year, we will be reminded over and over of the banality of evil – nurtured amidst clichés, plausible deniability and ultimately the blood of thousands and millions of innocent victims. What is not corrected can evolve in terrible ways. 9/11 has never been forcefully revised within a mainstream context. And the danger grows.
If the sun be risen on him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. – American King James Version
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Posted by memehunter on 09/02/11 02:10 PM
To try to open that door with that key [should you even want to- because, I must warn you, what is on the other side is not a pleasant realization], I suggest that your burden of proof for further video analysis [or for any other type of claimed 9/11 evidence], "should" now radically shift from an attitude of more or less automatically assuming that [for example] the collapse videos are real, and then trying to prove to yourself and others that they are false, to an evidentiary examination methodology whereby you automatically and consistently assume they are all false [in light of what you already know concerning the falsity of the "plane into/through building" videos], and then trying to prove to yourself that the collapse videos [or whatever] are genuine.
What I'm talking about is the consistent, conscious, pre-meditated use of an evidentiary examination process that from here on out is always pre-biased _against_ any and all evidence that supports the governments case. In other words, to automatically assume that absolutely all evidence supporting the governments case is false, until definitively proven otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt.
This is not an easy mental process for most to successfully and consistently achieve. Most [even so-called "libertarians", at least with regard to 9/11] have an automatic, ingrained pre-bias to presume at the outset of any evidence examination they might perform, however rudimentary and inconsistent, that the government and media evidence presented to them is real, before even examining it [and then making weak, inconsistent attempts to prove to themselves that it is false!]; a pre-bias which they are either unaware of, or unwilling , or incapable of completely putting aside during their evidentiary "examinations"; and consequently they mostly end up , post "examination",proving to themselves [all too predictably] that the evidence they examined was in fact genuine, just as they had [unconsciously] assumed at the outset - effectively only re-proving to themselves what they "already knew" :-)
Therefor it may well be hard, even for yourself, to consistently, deliberately examine the evidence with a pre-bias model that is the exact opposite of the one with which you have been indoctrinated [i.e that the state and the media/ press are in the business of telling the truth and you can trust them and assume at the outset of all your investigations that all, or most of the information they feed you is "kosher"]. Regards, onebornfree
Moreover, in the case of images and videos, there is a fairly large body of scientific literature showing that humans tend to be persuaded more easily by visual stimuli (in other words, we don't tend to doubt what we see). This is, of course, an unconscious bias, which is very difficult to eradicate even if we are consciously aware that images can be faked.
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/02/11 11:06 AM
So what? Who the hell wants to be a called a "patriot" anyway? :-) Regards onebornfree
Reply from The Daily Bell
There is nothing wrong with supporting the culture and people you live with, or speaking of them in a positive manner. Within a free-market context, why wouldn't one?
Posted by grendelgb on 09/02/11 10:09 AM
Is it not also a false 'given' that we dare not question this 'patriotism' thus perpetuating their murderous (for that it what it is) work?.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Well, ordinarily we would not have made the statement. But the next big meme apparently is that people who question the Anglosphere's "official' version of events are not patriots.
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/02/11 02:20 AM
No, this is a big alarm signal for me as well, so I agree with you on that point. But I don't know about the rest of your analysis.
To try to open that door with that key [should you even want to- because, I must warn you, what is on the other side is not a pleasant realization], I suggest that your burden of proof for further video analysis [or for any other type of claimed 9/11 evidence], "should" now radically shift from an attitude of more or less automatically assuming that [for example] the collapse videos are real, and then trying to prove to yourself and others that they are false, to an evidentiary examination methodology whereby you automatically and consistently assume they are all false [in light of what you already know concerning the falsity of the "plane into/through building" videos], and then trying to prove to yourself that the collapse videos [or whatever] are genuine.
What I'm talking about is the consistent, conscious, pre-meditated use of an evidentiary examination process that from here on out is always pre-biased _against_ any and all evidence that supports the governments case. In other words, to automatically assume that absolutely all evidence supporting the governments case is false, until definitively proven otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt.
This is not an easy mental process for most to successfully and consistently achieve. Most [even so-called "libertarians", at least with regard to 9/11] have an automatic, ingrained pre-bias to presume at the outset of any evidence examination they might perform, however rudimentary and inconsistent, that the government and media evidence presented to them is real, before even examining it [and then making weak, inconsistent attempts to prove to themselves that it is false!]; a pre-bias which they are either unaware of, or unwilling , or incapable of completely putting aside during their evidentiary "examinations"; and consequently they mostly end up , post "examination",proving to themselves [all too predictably] that the evidence they examined was in fact genuine, just as they had [unconsciously] assumed at the outset - effectively only re-proving to themselves what they "already knew" :-)
Therefor it may well be hard, even for yourself, to consistently, deliberately examine the evidence with a pre-bias model that is the exact opposite of the one with which you have been indoctrinated [i.e that the state and the media/ press are in the business of telling the truth and you can trust them and assume at the outset of all your investigations that all, or most of the information they feed you is "kosher"]. Regards, onebornfree
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Posted by Summer on 09/01/11 06:29 PM
This was an attack on the continent in which we live. No other power except the British during war of 1812 has done thiss. For our cowardly response, history will despise us.
Procrustes.
Posted by memehunter on 09/01/11 01:43 PM
No, this is a big alarm signal for me as well, so I agree with you on that point. But I don't know about the rest of your analysis.
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Posted by Abu Aardvark on 09/01/11 12:50 PM
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My sympathies, elves ...
Second, please accept my apologies for littering the tread with this futile exchange. However, to know now on what kind of foundation the whole approach rests, namely "that the towers were therefor most likely demolished later that day behind military style smokescreens" ... seems worth the effort, after all. Once and for all, hopefully.
AA
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Posted by Abu Aardvark on 09/01/11 12:21 PM
Because I believe that it does show such a violation, obviously. You do not- so what ? :-)
"Question: What caused the edges of the remaining facade to bend THAT way?"
What causes you to unquestioningly assume that that photograph is even real?
Question: What, exactly, do you mean when you say, "regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast"?
Do your own research of tall building demolition and the time it takes for the buildings to actually fall to the ground. That should answer you question.
" "Regular demolition" of WHAT - compared to WHAT? " See answer above.
"how come you imply that the WTC was indeed subject to "regular demolition"?"
I don't exactly. Others do [ eg. Steven Jones, Alex Jones,Loose Change etc.]They assume that the collapse videos are real [without _any_ proof] and base their demolition theories on observations of those collapse videos assumed to be real.
I, on the other hand do not believe that the collapse videos depict real -world events, and that the towers were therefor most likely demolished later that day behind military style smokescreens.
My point was/is that in order for the collapse videos to real, as these persons [i.e. Steven Jones, Alex Jones,Loose Change etc.] automatically assume , for their claims of regular demolition to hold any water it would have to normal for regular demolitions of other tall buildings half their size to occur in a much shorter time-frame than they actually do in the real world.
If you search on line you will find that even 400 ft tall buildings take far longer than the 10-20 seconds depicted in the WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences. The average time for a 400 ft tall building to be demolished was around 30 seconds, the last time I checked.
And , coincidentally all standard demolitions must start at the base of the building, which is on average around 8x stronger than the top,[ because it must support the entire weight of the structure above.] Yet in all of the supposed "real" WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences,both collapses start at the top of the buildings, the exact opposite of regular demolition protocol.
The fact that the collapse sequences for WTC1 and 2 portray a collapse time significantly shorter than is seen for buildings less than half their size, and that those WTC collapses both miraculously start at the top and not the bottom, just like something out of a Hollywood movie :-) , _should_, in my estimation, be a gigantic clue as to their fakery.
But for most it is not- just as the sight of a large airliner supposedly gliding into/through a steel/concrete building facade like a hot knife through butter, with no discernible signs of either slowing down or of losing _any_ parts whatsoever upon initial impact, raises absolutely no alarm signals for yourself and most others here. Regards, onebornfree.
OBF: Because I believe that it does show such a violation, obviously. You do not- so what ? :-)
Yes, you BELIEVE, while insisting to KNOW. Contradictory, at best.
-------
OBF: "I, on the other hand do not believe that the collapse videos depict real -world events, and that the towers were therefor most likely demolished later that day behind military style smokescreens."
What? In the light of THAT statement I'm tempted to grant that maybe you're no disinfo agent after all, but merely a regular fruitcake. Well, maybe both.
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 11:49 AM
Question: What caused the edges of the remaining facade to bend THAT way?
Click to view link
Question: What, exactly, do you mean when you say, "regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast"? "Regular demolition" of WHAT - compared to WHAT? What is "regular demolition", exactly, and how come you imply that the WTC was indeed subject to "regular demolition"?
Because I believe that it does show such a violation, obviously. You do not- so what ? :-)
"Question: What caused the edges of the remaining facade to bend THAT way?"
What causes you to unquestioningly assume that that photograph is even real?
Question: What, exactly, do you mean when you say, "regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast"?
Do your own research of tall building demolition and the time it takes for the buildings to actually fall to the ground. That should answer you question.
" "Regular demolition" of WHAT - compared to WHAT? " See answer above.
"how come you imply that the WTC was indeed subject to "regular demolition"?"
I don't exactly. Others do [ eg. Steven Jones, Alex Jones,Loose Change etc.]They assume that the collapse videos are real [without _any_ proof] and base their demolition theories on observations of those collapse videos assumed to be real.
I, on the other hand do not believe that the collapse videos depict real -world events, and that the towers were therefor most likely demolished later that day behind military style smokescreens.
My point was/is that in order for the collapse videos to real, as these persons [i.e. Steven Jones, Alex Jones,Loose Change etc.] automatically assume , for their claims of regular demolition to hold any water it would have to normal for regular demolitions of other tall buildings half their size to occur in a much shorter time-frame than they actually do in the real world.
If you search on line you will find that even 400 ft tall buildings take far longer than the 10-20 seconds depicted in the WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences. The average time for a 400 ft tall building to be demolished was around 30 seconds, the last time I checked.
And , coincidentally all standard demolitions must start at the base of the building, which is on average around 8x stronger than the top,[ because it must support the entire weight of the structure above.] Yet in all of the supposed "real" WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences,both collapses start at the top of the buildings, the exact opposite of regular demolition protocol.
The fact that the collapse sequences for WTC1 and 2 portray a collapse time significantly shorter than is seen for buildings less than half their size, and that those WTC collapses both miraculously start at the top and not the bottom, just like something out of a Hollywood movie :-) , _should_, in my estimation, be a gigantic clue as to their fakery.
But for most it is not- just as the sight of a large airliner supposedly gliding into/through a steel/concrete building facade like a hot knife through butter, with no discernible signs of either slowing down or of losing _any_ parts whatsoever upon initial impact, raises absolutely no alarm signals for yourself and most others here. Regards, onebornfree.
Reply from The Daily Bell
This is really insanity. DB staffers were THERE. In New Jersey, on the Palisades. THEY SAW THE TOWERS COLLAPSE AT THE TIMES THAT WERE STATED. Your misinformation is getting totally out of hand. And there were many friends lost that day. They were not "morphed" non-entities. They were real people who never showed up again. They DIED.
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Posted by Abu Aardvark on 09/01/11 10:55 AM
Number [1] on my own list remains this video ["Killtown's"] analysis of "amateur" footage allegedly taken by Evan Fairbanks, and aired on national TV and cable on 9/12: Click to view link ,
,particularly in light of Newton's 3rd law of motion, with which you must be somewhat more acquainted than the average individual [ although Newton's laws are still, and have been to date, a staple of all US high school physics courses, as far as I am aware].
Number [2] on my own list would be the various collapse times [they vary by as much as 10 seconds depending on which "version" you view], displayed in the various famous WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences.
Keep in mind that a billiard ball dropped from 1300 feet, in a vacuum [ no air resistance], in unimpeded fall will reach the ground below in 9.22 secs.
And yet you can easily find archived network videos on line that show WTC1 collapsing from top to bottom in 10 seconds flat! [Regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast, either!]
Just two things to maybe consider from a broad scientific perspective [there are many others], until perhaps you learn a little more about technical signs of video/photographic fakery etc. Regards, onebornfree
Question: What caused the edges of the remaining facade to bend THAT way?
Click to view link
Question: What, exactly, do you mean when you say, "regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast"? "Regular demolition" of WHAT - compared to WHAT? What is "regular demolition", exactly, and how come you imply that the WTC was indeed subject to "regular demolition"?
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 10:37 AM
Admit what, exactly?
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 10:35 AM
Nonetheless, my own experience with the wily unpredictability of complex events, and knowing just enough about things like lens flare and other photographic artifacts, makes me cautious enough not to attempt to make a declaration in a field in which there is much I am ignorant of. The seed of doubt has been planted. It should be enough. (How long did it take to do the animations in the movie Avatar?)
Number [1] on my own list remains this video ["Killtown's"] analysis of "amateur" footage allegedly taken by Evan Fairbanks, and aired on national TV and cable on 9/12: Click to view link ,
,particularly in light of Newton's 3rd law of motion, with which you must be somewhat more acquainted than the average individual [ although Newton's laws are still, and have been to date, a staple of all US high school physics courses, as far as I am aware].
Number [2] on my own list would be the various collapse times [they vary by as much as 10 seconds depending on which "version" you view], displayed in the various famous WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences.
Keep in mind that a billiard ball dropped from 1300 feet, in a vacuum [ no air resistance], in unimpeded fall will reach the ground below in 9.22 secs.
And yet you can easily find archived network videos on line that show WTC1 collapsing from top to bottom in 10 seconds flat! [Regular demolition would not even take down the towers that fast, either!]
Just two things to maybe consider from a broad scientific perspective [there are many others], until perhaps you learn a little more about technical signs of video/photographic fakery etc. Regards, onebornfree
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 10:11 AM
[Ignoring the attempted smear],
[1] assuming that is true, why is that a problem for you, exactly?
[2] why should I [or anyone else] believe that you yourselves are "entirely free" agents ?
[3] What difference does it make either way?
[4] how old are you, 15? :-) regards Onebornfree.
Reply from The Daily Bell
Talking around the point? Why don't you simply admit it?
Of course everyone has agendas. The question is not whether a person HAS an agenda but whether that agenda is dedicated to a certain kind of interference, in this case interfering with the clear discussion of an important issue.
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 09:14 AM
"We note again, that you have taken a thread devoted to calling for additional questions to be raised at the highest level regarding the obviously phony 9/11 narrative and turned it into free-for-all on whether or not planes actually were flown into the Trade Towers. It is hard to avoid the thought this is a mendacious tactic."
Assuming , for the sake of argument, that that is all true : why is that a problem for you? Regards, onebornfree.
P.S you appear to have not read my previous response to your prior observation expressing the almost exact same thoughts.
Reply from The Daily Bell
"Why is that a problem for you?"
Because we continue to have the suspicion that you are not entirely a free agent.
Posted by John Danforth on 09/01/11 08:53 AM
Translation: Please don't hijack every 9/11 thread with this single issue, it's taking undue advantage of the generosity of our host.
Posted by John Danforth on 09/01/11 08:50 AM
Here is an interesting mental exercise for you to maybe consider.
At the moment your evidence review process like most others here, roughly stated, appears to be :
look at all of the videos with the pre-assumption that they are all real [maybe a little doubt], and then to look for possible evidence that might suggest they are really fake. In other words "I assume they are all real, prove to me/prove to myself that they are not."
[ All this is of course is usually attempted without even knowing what to look for with regard to signs of video fakery, in most cases :-) ]
Instead, how about this: first, assume, in you minds eye that all of the videos are part [a large part!] of the evidence that the government and mainstream media has presented to you as an an excuse to start a war etc. etc. -[ which is true, in any case, that has been the exact process to date].
In your new-style evidentiary reviews, instead of then starting from the automatic assumption that the videos and other "witness testimony" presented by the government is all real, and _then_ trying to find possible fakery , why not start from the automatic pre- assumption that it is all fake, and then in your mind's eye be saying to the government: "prove to me that it is all real".
People like myself are constantly asked to "prove the videos are all fakes". I would submit that that is the exact opposite of what should be occurring, at least amongst those who think of themselves as consistent "libertarians", who are supposedly aware of the Bill of Rights and the philosophy/rationale behind them.[Basically all of the governments evidence is supposed to be held to a "higher standard of truth".]
As I see it, what "should" occur is that these "libertarians" "should" automatically assume at the outset that all of the videos [or whatever "evidence" the government/MSM presents] is all fake [or incredibly inaccurate, if you will] , until definitively proven otherwise via rigorous examination and cross-examination.
They [you?] should _not_ be starting from the opposite pre-assumption before their evidentiary reviews commence- i.e. that the various types of government evidence is probably all, or mostly genuine until proven otherwise.
In their search for truth, I submit that they should be starting with an automatic pre-bias against _all_ government presented evidence; all of it should be treated as probably/possibly false until indisputably proven otherwise.
So I would say, to all readers of the Daily Bell [including any "libertarians"], that instead of myself having to prove that the 9/11 "live" video footage was all faked, that that process is in actual fact, vis a vis the Bill of Rights, entirely "a$$ about face" - the onus is actually on them, and the government [and you, if you stick to your current investigative methodology]- in fact you all should have to prove that the videos are all real:-) Regards, onebornfree
Nonetheless, my own experience with the wily unpredictability of complex events, and knowing just enough about things like lens flare and other photographic artifacts, makes me cautious enough not to attempt to make a declaration in a field in which there is much I am ignorant of. The seed of doubt has been planted. It should be enough. (How long did it take to do the animations in the movie Avatar?)
Posted by onebornfreeatyahoo on 09/01/11 07:40 AM
Here is an interesting mental exercise for you to maybe consider.
At the moment your evidence review process like most others here, roughly stated, appears to be :
look at all of the videos with the pre-assumption that they are all real [maybe a little doubt], and then to look for possible evidence that might suggest they are really fake. In other words "I assume they are all real, prove to me/prove to myself that they are not."
[ All this is of course is usually attempted without even knowing what to look for with regard to signs of video fakery, in most cases :-) ]
Instead, how about this: first, assume, in you minds eye that all of the videos are part [a large part!] of the evidence that the government and mainstream media has presented to you as an an excuse to start a war etc. etc. -[ which is true, in any case, that has been the exact process to date].
In your new-style evidentiary reviews, instead of then starting from the automatic assumption that the videos and other "witness testimony" presented by the government is all real, and _then_ trying to find possible fakery , why not start from the automatic pre- assumption that it is all fake, and then in your mind's eye be saying to the government: "prove to me that it is all real".
People like myself are constantly asked to "prove the videos are all fakes". I would submit that that is the exact opposite of what should be occurring, at least amongst those who think of themselves as consistent "libertarians", who are supposedly aware of the Bill of Rights and the philosophy/rationale behind them.[Basically all of the governments evidence is supposed to be held to a "higher standard of truth".]
As I see it, what "should" occur is that these "libertarians" "should" automatically assume at the outset that all of the videos [or whatever "evidence" the government/MSM presents] is all fake [or incredibly inaccurate, if you will] , until definitively proven otherwise via rigorous examination and cross-examination.
They [you?] should _not_ be starting from the opposite pre-assumption before their evidentiary reviews commence- i.e. that the various types of government evidence is probably all, or mostly genuine until proven otherwise.
In their search for truth, I submit that they should be starting with an automatic pre-bias against _all_ government presented evidence; all of it should be treated as probably/possibly false until indisputably proven otherwise.
So I would say, to all readers of the Daily Bell [including any "libertarians"], that instead of myself having to prove that the 9/11 "live" video footage was all faked, that that process is in actual fact, vis a vis the Bill of Rights, entirely "a$$ about face" - the onus is actually on them, and the government [and you, if you stick to your current investigative methodology]- in fact you all should have to prove that the videos are all real:-) Regards, onebornfree
Reply from The Daily Bell
We note again, that you have taken a thread devoted to calling for additional questions to be raised at the highest level regarding the obviously phony 9/11 narrative and turned it into free-for-all on whether or not planes actually were flown into the Trade Towers. It is hard to avoid the thought this is a mendacious tactic.
Posted by amanfromMars on 09/01/11 07:36 AM
Anything untoward/unusual which makes an individual lots of bread is going to be suspect and worth more investigation, and whenever just one of those links is broken, does the whole chain collapse as everybody tries to cover their tracks and/or try to excuse themselves from being lead instruments by carefully ratting on fools on the hill directly responsible and thinking themselves immune and above retribution.
It is ever the case since time began.
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Posted by Reader on 09/01/11 06:49 AM
Posted by John Danforth on 09/01/11 01:38 AM
If you [or anyone else here] do not at present see " extraordinarily clear evidence." of media complicity, [e.g. faked videos, faked photographs" ] then I would humbly suggest that your evidentiary review methods are at fault and that you are allowing unwarranted personal prejudices to distort you review process before you even get started.[not a criticism, everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree]
It is also highly likely that you have not closely analyzed enough evidence yet, or do not even know what to look for [for example, exactly what to look for in the way of signs to confirm , or at least suspect, video or photographic fakery], but that is just a wild guess. Regards,onebornfree
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